Stop cruelty. Don’t participate in it. Don’t let others think you tolerate it.
Aus gegebenem Anlaß. I have to make this vague as to avoid feeding the trolls too much , but I want people to know. Another Armitage fan was harassed over her fan fiction recently. Just learned about it last night. It wasn’t saying that the reader didn’t like the story, or offering criticism; both of those are legitimate. The action taken went well beyond either of those. Such behavior constitutes mean-spirited censorship of other writers that seeks to destroy rather than to build up. It scorns the rules for discourse, and in doing so, gradually makes it impossible for us to speak to each other by making creative people want to hide, rather than share, their work.
So, yeah, I’m breaking my rule about not disciplining other fans. Because this kind of behavior is cruel and destructive and it damages the very thing that many Armitage fans love most about this fandom — the way it encourages people to be creative.
And yeah — to the person who’s doing it — I know who you are, and I suspect that you still read here. I’ve been the victim of your words, and though they really hurt at the time, now I mostly feel sorry that you derive such joy from spreading bad feeling. I won’t speculate on the reasons for your behavior, because I know little about you beyond the cruel things you’ve said and done to others. I know you have some justification in your own mind for what you’re doing, even if I don’t understand it. And no, I don’t have any faith at all that reading this message might make you change your stripes. I learned as a gradeschooler on the playground that bullies don’t really change. At most, they can be silenced.
The only way to stop a bully is to stand up to her. So I’m calling this behavior what it is. I hope that all of us, when we see fellow fans under unfair fire and personal attack, can muster the courage to call bullying what it is and say it out loud to the perpetrator: “You are bullying my fellow fan. You’ve said what you had to say. Stop these personal attacks immediately.” Because this kind of activity is not about differences of opinion, or improving people’s writing. It’s nothing short of an attempt to destroy another person’s creativity and ding her self-esteem. It’s an act that robs our fandom of joy and fellowship and takes yet another story out of public view. Bullying destroys the framework of trust that makes it possible to write for each other in honest, moving ways, to share our talents and our compassion.
I don’t want to lose that framework, and I hope you don’t, either. I feel strongly about this because I was silenced for so long in my last job, but I want creative people to feel free to speak in the open so that we can all benefit. And I wish we could all support that openness without feeling so threatened by it that we feel the need to shut others down.
Me + Richard Armitage 
I have very rarely commented in Armitageworld, but I’m a regular reader of your blog. Thank you for making us aware of the bullying that is going on. I’m certain that there are others, like myself (lurkers), who love the blogs, fanfic, videos and artwork that are all apart of this creative community. I regularly find myself thinking how proud I am of the talented people in this community and the work that they share with us. Maybe it’s time for those of us who tend to lurk in the shadows to express our appreciation for all of the talent that is on display. It may not stop the bullies, but maybe it could help offset their negative impact.
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Thanks for taking the time to comment, chabesquen. I think that all of the talents out there would appreciate pats on the back, even if it’s to say nothing more than “good job. I liked your work.”
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I agree! I am a lurker mostly because I love to read the RA blogs (more than writing) and experience the creativity. I love the positive energy of this blog as well as many others and see it as my “feel good” moment of the day. Can’t really think why someone would spend their time putting others down. How low must their self-esteem be?
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Thanks for the comment, MissLiberty, and welcome to the blog.
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Well said Servetus!
If we can’t be kind, courteous, and encouraging of one another, what is the point in life?
I can honestly say that Armitage fans of my acquaintance–whom I count as my friends–are a lovely group of ladies. We mentor each other, support each other, and we enlighten each other. Being in the RA community of fans–and it is a “community” as Bccmee labeled it–is an enriching and intrinsically rewarding experience.
Unfortunately, bullies rarely recognize themselves as such. They feel righteous about their point of view–to the point of drowning out any appeals to common sense, and civility sometimes. Yet, these people need to be reminded of their inappropriateness–as you so rightly point out. I’m afraid, I’ve been on the receiving end of non-RA related bullying myself over the years.
But, I pity these bullies. Their lives look like they are gasping for air while drowning, grasping at others by trying to pull their potential rescuers under the water with them–rather than letting others guide them to a place of calm and fellowship, and dry solid land.
But, to anyone who has bullied–and you are finally realizing the futility of your actions because they separate you from a better life–it’s not too late. Instead of insulting or harassing your fellow human beings, realize that everyone is a potential friend or at least friendly acquaintance. And friends are more priceless than gold. If you have cares and worries that cause you to lash out at others, stop and think, and redirect yourself. A friend can listen and console you as you unburden yourself of your worries. And a burden shared, is a burden lessened. But, you have to remember, that to have a friend, you must first be a friend to others. So start today and change just one behavior, or remark, or way of viewing another person. Weigh carefully your written communication–which can sometimes seems more harsh than perhaps you intend. Treat others with kindness and respect–as you yourself would wish to be treated. And do this every day until kindness and respect becomes ingrained in you. And you will find that kindness and respect will be returned to you.
Sincerely, Gratiana
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The question I am wrestling with at this very moment is what to do when understanding has been extended to a problem person repeatedly and the trust is always misplaced. Jesus says, forgive your brother seventy times seven. I have a hard time achieving that myself.
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Bravo for this post. I was bullied as a child, and it’s one of the few things that really and truly makes me angry. I don’t know exactly what went down, but no one should be a victim of a bully.
Peace and love, everyone.
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I have a similar visceral reaction, Charlotte Hawkins.
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I also don´t know what has happened, but I have this mesage for the bully: if you don´t like something that somebody else has written, then try to use your energy and write something better. If you don´t know how – bake. Or try to be usefull and clean your bathroom. Instead of hurting somebody brave enough to share her thoughts and feelings. Hate will only make you feel more miserable.
I wish you to find some healthier relief.
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To some extent bullies get their energy from the negativity they create. It makes them feel important. I’m torn because I feel like ignoring the problem here is not making it go away, but continuing to discuss it also doesn’t make it go away … hard to know what to do.
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Dear Servet,
Thank you for your protest. We can not stop the cruelty, the lack of compassion and love in some hearts. We can not understand their reason to hate so much, and even if we can understand, it can not accept that in the end there is a justification for such behavior. We can only resist, and continue with our goal of being true to ourselves, our feelings, our beliefs and keep our feet firmly on the ground and our minds sharp on our goals. If we are wrong, the life will teach us the way to hit the road to our best.
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I felt the need to clarify this, I do not follow the fanfics, so my comment was referring to general situations of bullying. I may not like or disagree with an opinion, but I think bullying involves personal attack. That is very emotionally bad. So my opinion is not on the specific case simply because I am not aware of the case. I’m sorry I should have made it clear that from the beginning.
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I agree — we don’t need to know about specific cases to agree that bullying is wrong.
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Cheers to Servetus for bringing this out into the open and challenging its continuation. I’m utterly baffled by the kind of personality who takes pleasure in these pseudonymous forms of cruelty via the internet — all the sexism, racism, and homophobia in comments columns for online news journals, for example — but even more so in the smaller worlds of fan fiction and fan writing conducted by ordinary people, for their online friends. Every once in a while it has poisoned the comments sections of my own blog, and it tears me apart each time.
I’m especially glad to see Servetus calling out a specific person for this. I believe this kind of behavior continues when a person believes him or herself to be anonymous — and therefore incapable of shame. But whoever you are, you should be ashamed.
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I used to think that it was that people who were not themselves writers just didn’t know how poisonous it is to find those things in your email in the morning. But I’m growing convinced that in fact there are some people who see negativity as part of their creative output.
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I don’t know who is doing it, but I hate bullies. I personally will not tolerate it. A bully is someone who does not believe in themself and has to put others down to make themself feel better. Fan fiction is an art and an appreciated one from my viewpoint. Anyone who takes the time to work on a fictional story in regards to RA is someone I hold in high esteem. We are all here to support each other and RA. I am very disappointed one of our troops is hurting another. I am upset and disgusted. I know RA would be very disappointed, as well.
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I agree that the support aspect of the whole experience is one of the most valuable pieces. People have really developed hidden talents through the support of their audiences.
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Well, as it would seem I am one of the very few people who actually read the comments on wattpad, and I must add, a rape councillor, the piece was quite seriously wrong. By promulgating the idea that devastating affects of rape can be some how ‘cured’ in the way suggested in the story, is not only disrespectful to the victims, it actively trivializes the crime. I would advise the more sensible here to go and read the comments before calling for blood. From the feeding frenzy going on I have no doubt that this comment will be deleted. I am terribly disappointed in this community, and I think Richard Armitage would be too.
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I don’t delete comments that express disagreement; I delete personal attacks. There’s a difference. Your comment expresses disagreement; it does not attack me personally or question my right to speak because I think differently than you do.
On the specific point, insofar as they are available (the account in question was deleted — which is proof of the point of suppression of opinions and art that I’ve tried to make clear here), I’ve read the comments, and I disagree with your position because this is *fiction* we are discussing here. It’s not a manual on how to counsel rape survivors. Rape is frequently depicted in problematic ways in fiction. The point is not disagreeing with the depiction or agreeing with it, it is supporting the right of the person to speak and preventing her from being shouted down, which was what happened in this situation, to the point that the author simply chose to disappear rather than continuing to let herself be abused.
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So, just to make sure I’m clear on this: it’s okay to *bully* someone if they have an opinion you don’t like? Or they write a work that you disapprove of?
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Can I ask a favor of everyone involved in this discussion? Can we keep RA out of it? Not one of us has any idea what he’d be disappointed in or whether he’d even care. Bringing him up is an argument from emotion. This is a community discussion and he may be the really good looking figurehead but he’s not actually part of it.
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You’re right, I’m sorry, it was rather trivial of me.
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Obviously our opinion of what constitutes shouting, differs. What I read was sound advise given by a rape survivor. It was followed by a number of comments that encouraged the writer of the story to continue with the ‘realistic’ portrayal of rape and it’s consequences. And I believe the removal of the original story was the decision of the writer, not the ‘suppression of opinions and art’. You are quite right it is not a manual on how to council rape victims. I glad you appreciate that, I wonder how many of the impressionable young minds who read on the site also understand.
By the way you, appear to be saying that any opinion, if expressed in an artistic medium, is valid. Do you understand the road this takes you down, do you really believe this?
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What the person in question did went beyond disagreement or even criticism of the story, as the first paragraph of this post made clear. Either would be fine. In the situation that the author of the story experienced, it only made sense for her to withdraw the story. Had she not had this experience of abuse, the story would still be there. There’s a certain irony in all of this that is not lost on me.
I don’t think that you or I can say what the effect of any story on anyone will be. We don’t have enough information. We don’t know who’s reading There’s an unpleasant rape story near the beginning of the Bible, too; many of the Greek myths involve rape; I could go on and on. Should we try to keep awareness of rape and responses to it under wraps because someone “impressionable” might be reading about them? We live in a violent world. I’m not impressed by the argument that censoring all discussion of violence and response to violence — whether appropriate or not — will somehow end violence or appropriate or inappropriate responses to them.
I’m not one for extreme arguments; I’m for responsible use of the freedoms we have. I don’t believe that a story that some readers found to involve an unrealistic attitude toward rape recovery (although it’s not like anyone got “cured” in that story anyway; it had a very ambivalent ending in the form that I read it in) constitutes a form of speech that needs to be suppressed on the face of the issue. It certainly doesn’t need to be suppressed by mobbing. It’s not like the author of this story was advocating anything dangerous. This doesn’t even come close to fire in a crowded theatre in my opinion.
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And I should say: even if something were published that I found to be actually dangerous, I still wouldn’t find it okay to bully the author of the piece.
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Hi, Jude. I am also a sexual assault survivor. It happened to me in college and the fallout was horrific. That being said, there was nothing in that fic that I found offensive. Each victim is different and processes the event in a different manner. Did the writer go deep enough? That’s not for me to say because I wasn’t the writer. Would I as a survivor write that story? No, I would stay closer to my own experience. But to say it should be written about only in a certain way is silencing those victims who have a different experience in healing.
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You are again, right, every experience is different, but no less real. I did not say it could only be written one way, only that the input of the survivor was valid. The writer was misguided, this is only my opinion. Obviously it is not shared by anyone here.
But I also have a problem with the accusations of bullying being made in such a vociferous and personal way. A banner head looks like shouting, then to be followed by a host of people who admit to not having read the ‘bullying comments’ but all supporting the condemnation of the critic, that looks like bullying to me. I think the rights and wrongs of the original piece have been lost, reason has been lost. I will retire from this not because I am a bully and have been silenced by ‘right thinking people’ but because it saddens me so much.
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Sorry, I had to be away for several hours.
I posted what I wrote because I’ve been bullied by the same person, as the post said. So it is partially personal for me. And I am not the only one. There are at least two more people I know who have been subjected to the same treatment by the same person. I have read the fic in question and what I can find remaining of the controversy about it, and I’ve talked to people who saw the original comments and had varying reactions to the controversy. I’ve made my judgments about what happened, this is true, based on evidence I could collect about it.
Although I enjoyed that fic a great deal, I understood the objections to it and where they came from. Even so, the point of what i said was *never* about the content of the original piece, as the post makes clear. (Though I am now tempted to write a long post about specifically what I think made it great.) My writing was about how the author of the original piece was treated by a person who clearly wanted to silence her and succeeded. The story can now only be found in a passworded venue. It’s an experience that I have had at the hands of the same person, and in fact you can find traces of that all over this blog, and on wattpad.
There was no “feeding frenzy” here. Only people agreeing that bullying is bad. I hardly think this point is controversial and I assume that is why people agreed with me. I’m not the one destroying the discourse here, Jude. The bully already did that. I’m sorry if you didn’t catch the rather mournful tone of my original post, but in fact, it’s there.
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Jude,
This is not the first time this individual has done this type of thing and I am sure it won’t be the last. If I shared with you some of the very personal statements she made about me in not one, but two lenghty diatribes after I expressed my dismay at her malignant attitudes, you might better understand where we who have suffered at her hands or know those who have, are coming from. I think you mean well, I truly do. But you haven’t walked in our particular shoes quite yet.
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I follow your blog but don’t tend to post. I’m sorry to hear about this happening and don’t really know what’s going on. (I *really* don’t–I don’t write fanfic and have never been to Wattpad!) But I wanted to say that the RA fandom is a special place and I hope we can deal with differences like this in a way that is not too acrimonious.
I agree with the others here who point out what a wonderfully creative and supportive place the RA fandom is. I hope that it can remain that way.
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I think it’s time for us to start calling bullshit when we see it.
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Thank you for speaking out, Servetus. I followed the story as it was being posted in installments on wattpad and I read the commentaries at that time. I therefore also witnessed how the person you’re referring to tried to teach the author on the topic she was writing about.
Now I do fully understand that rape is a highly sensitive topic and very difficult to write about. I am very lucky that I haven’t witnessed any form of sexual assault in my life so I was obviously not as emotionally involved reading that story as a former victim would be. What I did, however, find very disturbing was that said person did not voice her opinion once and then just stepped away from the story which so obviously upset her. I also realized that it was the same person who had been bullying you on this blog. I offered to the author to express my point of view in a commentary but she did not want that.
After the story was complete I never went back to the commentaries and I am now very dismayed to find out that the author has deleted her account on wattpad. As I have actually read at least the earlier commentaries on wattpad I feel entitled to voice my opinion: they definitely indicated the start of bullying. In a way I feel sorry for the bullying person as I caught a glimpse of someone with overwhelming personal issues.
However, the author is a person with feelings too. She wrote a piece of fiction and like any author she is entitled to make use of poetic license. This fanfic is not a guidebook about the consequences of rape, it is not a nonfictional book about rape – it is FICTION and thus a product of the author’s imagination. I admit there may be limits to poetic license – e.g. the glorification of violence – but said story is definitely written with restraint and it even has a sort of open, not entirely happy ending.
To me it’s easy: if I don’t like a book, I stop reading it. If I don’t like a story or an author on wattpad or other sites I also stop reading. I am on twitter – if I don’t like someone’s tweets I stop following that person. If I don’t like a movie I stop watching. That doesn’t mean I don’t voice any criticism but I find that doing that once is enough.
I’m not here to dictate to other people what to do. However, bullies are intolerant and never stop telling others how they should think and behave. They try to manipulate and they also very rarely stop that behavior. What a pity that it has happened once again.
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Not knowing anything about the story other than what I’ve read here, I can only say that I agree with Suse. You might not like a story, but if you have a problem with the contents, there’s nothing wrong in saying what you didn’t like about it and why. If it’s unrealistic, fine, give feedback saying that and how it could be improved – isn’t that the point of Wattpad anyway? To enable giving feedback to people? CONSTRUCTIVE criticism.
If I write something and people come back and say they didn’t like it, okay, I might be a bit disappointed, but if it’s said in a constructive way (i.e. WHY the person didn’t like it and how they would have preferred it), it’s useful. I might not agree with it, but at least I can make my mind up and take it on board, and hopefully learn something in the process and develop my writing. If someone didn’t like it and just said “It sucks”, that doesn’t help. Okay? WHAT is it that you don’t like? That it didn’t float your particular boat … so what? We can’t please everyone. If, on the other hand, it was turned into a “YOU suck”, then that’s a personal attack. So I suck because I wrote something that didn’t please you? Well, pardon me for breathing. Ridiculous.
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Constructive crticism is one thing. I am a former teacher. I know how to give and how to accept such advice.
However, being intentionally mean-spirited, trying to force your opinions down someone else’s throat, setting yourself up as THE authority on all things in the world of fiction, trying to serve as the Fanfic Police and purposely attempting to stifle other people’s creativity is just plain WRONG. I detest bullies; I had my fill of them as a child and don’t intend to live my life trying to shape myself to other’s standards. I have been bullied by the same individual and I am tired of this person running roughshod over some of the lovely people in this fandom.
I am a fanfic writer and I know not everyone is going to like or enjoy what I write. I don’t expect them to. That’s why we need lots of different writers with different styles and different voices. I know the difference between fact and fiction, between fantasy and reality. I give my stories ratings and warn readers up front what to expect. Yes, they are often steamy and can be quite explicit. I feel no need to apologize for that. I am an adult and I write for adults who like stories with emotion, humor, heart, soul and passion.
Somehow I missed this post when it originally went up or I would have already posted here, let me assure you. Thank you, Servetus, for taking a stand and sticking to your guns. I truly appreciate it and I know many others do, too.
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I am slowly catching up with posts and want to thank you for your courage to post this, Servetus. I do not know the background and am very glad about that because I fear if such an attack hit me, I would be very close to go into hiding completely and draw back from fandom. So I find it very important, that in fandom fans are there for each other. What I especially cherish in RA-fandom, is the openness and welcoming attitude towards each other. It is a bit of my ideal ‘counter-world’ compared to hard reality and I am very defensive to keep it that way ;o) Thank you for protecting this wonderful refuge!
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That’s exactly what I fear, CDoart, that someone ends up retreating because they become the object of unfair attack. I want those people to know that when it happens, there are majorities of people out there who support them. I think this writer got plenty of support, but I want to encourage that behavior.
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I am saddened by this post and at the same time, I thank you for making us aware of the situation, Servetus. Bullied as a child, I hate to hear of it but I have to stress that in making this comment, I have not read the piece that occasioned the bullying. I know only what I’ve read here.
However, the piece of writing is a work of fiction, a product of the writer’s imagination. That being so, surely the author is entitled to present her work of fiction, the product of her imagination, and those who do not like the way she has dealt with the issues she has written of can stop reading.
I imagine for any fanfiction writer it is accepted that everyone will not like any given piece. If I find I don’t like a fanfic for whatever reason, I don’t continue to read it, although I do feel that if a reader has a problem with the contents, it is quite acceptable to give that view in a resoned manner. It is not OK to attempt to impose one’s own views and there is, of course, a huge difference between constructive criticism- helpful for fanfic writers, I presume, and personal attack.
I was pleased to note that someone has mentioned that there was no need tp mention Mr Armitage in context of this ‘discussion.’ What I would say is that most Armitage fans of my acquaintance are lovely. I find there is a sense of community that encourages and supports and we all learn from one another. We don’t have to agree, but we should be able to treat each pther with respect and I think for the most part this is what happens. It is dstressing to hear of these other instances.
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yes, Richard Armitage is a sort of coincidence here. Presumably he doesn’t read fanfiction about characters he’s played. And if he does, he’s a glutton for punishment, is all I can say 🙂
The issue is the behavior, which should not be tolerated.
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[…] was thinking last night, before I fell asleep, about the reasons why this incident bugged me so much. I was angry because I saw it as a repeated instance of a particular person […]
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What fanfic means to me: an attempt « Me + Richard Armitage said this on November 3, 2011 at 6:10 pm
This post passed me by as well. The problem I have with all this is how badly this story was misrepresented on another site. I read about it there and knowing the author thought it just didn’t sound like her and what she wrote. When I read it I expected the two rape victims to end up in bed with each other immediately because of the criticisim but that isn’t what happens. It is about how two people with a shared experience support each other.
On bullying, generally the problem goes back to how tone cannot be heard in a comment. We miss body language on the internet and that gives us so much information. Multipleposts saying the same things become intimidating. Bad language is unecessary.
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Yes, the story as it was represented elsewhere and as it was treated in the comments were two entirely different things. On the tone question — I think it’s regrettable when criticism is given in a mean tone, but in this case what was done went well beyond an unkind tone. Misrepresentation of the story was only one aspect of it.
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I’m about to close this thread because I think if we talk much more about the details we run the danger of embarrassing or upsetting the author of the story in question, and making the victim into the object of discussion was not my goal in writing the post. I wanted to argue for the retention of a sphere in which we can use stories and fantasy creatively, and to note that we all need to be involved actively in protecting that sphere against threats to it.
Nothing I learned while looking for evidence about this incident when I heard about it, or after writing about it and hearing the story from several more people privately, did anything to shake my conviction that this incident was a case of bullying, pure and simple.
In the interest of fairness, however, I wanted everyone who reads this strand to know that I received a comment from the person whom I accused of bullying, a person who is blocked from commenting on this blog because her comments have repeatedly become abusive of me and others.
In essence, that person wishes it to be known that she believes that this post misunderstands her position, and that she tried to make her comments constructive and sought the help of fellow fans in doing so. In sum, she disagrees with the charge that she was bullying the author via her words and actions with regard to the story.
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[…] I have written before (multiple times, it turns out), the intentional destruction of a safe place for community that […]
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What Jas said. « Me + Richard Armitage said this on July 10, 2012 at 7:12 pm
[…] an initial misstep in that direction, I’ve tried hard not to police other fans, except when a clear case of bullying occurs. When I say why I am doing or not doing something, it’s always intended as a rationale for me, […]
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Losing Armitage? or, Thorin aches and pains, part 2 « Me + Richard Armitage said this on October 24, 2012 at 2:02 am