I wish you would turn the discussion on its head for once, Richard Armitage

Article here. And yeah, since I’ve gotten to that point in the move where I’d probably happily just dump everything I have in a dumpster, take this for what it’s worth.

I try not to get angry about the entertainment press — although I often fail. This is one of those articles that you just read and kind of shake your head. Well, maybe he was misquoted or mispunctuated.

Yeah, Mr. Armitage, we’re happy to go with you most places you want to go (even Dickens). But that doesn’t mean everyone who follows your career with attention has to love everything you do.

I knew Francis Dolahyde was controversial because I knew a lot of people wouldn’t like him. Because they like you to be a heartthrob or attractive. So I saw that as ‘let’s see if we can change people’s tastes’

What is to like about Francis Dolarhyde, exactly? It sounds from this article like even you didn’t like him much. But (a) Francis Dolarhyde was pretty attractive. OK, not when he was violently assaulting people. But Dolarhyde in his underwear? Yeah, pretty attractive. I don’t know what the operative definition of “heartthrob” is here — but it seems to me that plenty of Armitage fans were pretty excited about that role. However (b), most of the people I know who didn’t watch Hannibal objected it to not because of Dolarhyde’s level of attractiveness or their issues with what happens when you don’t play the hero (there is certainly some of that in this fandom), but on moral-aesthetic grounds (aestheticizing gore, creating sympathy for a villain who does not deserve it) or because Hannibal is gross and violent and hard to watch for people who object to that sort of thing and are unaccustomed to, or triggered by, watching it. I guess you can call the latter sentiment “taste,” but I think that’s oversimplifying. Yeah, I watched it, because you were in it, and it was interesting to me because of my identity and self-esteem issues, absolutely. But did you change my tastes? Will I be looking for another serial killer show to watch? Om, no.

More questionable is this statement:

[Aidan Turner] was born to play those roles really. Whereas I found myself in that role in North and South not really realising what it was [potential magnet for female attention].

Laying aside what you say about Turner (about whom I know nothing other than that he’s cute, and whose press I don’t read), I think this is a really questionable assertion about why it is that people loved you as Mr. Thornton. Yes, he was attractive (and it’s simply impossible to separate the appearance of the character from the performance, acting being what it is), and certainly, we love to talk in blooming terms about how attractive he is. But Thornton captures so many fans’ attention (and is a frequent gateway drug) for reasons well beyond how he looks, or his heartthrob potential: because he is an ethical man; because he struggles with himself; because he is imperfect and yet seeks to improve; because he moves between the poles of extreme anger and violence and tremendous care; because he has to step outside his comfort zone; because, as a proud man, he comes back from humiliation time and time again — because he personifies a sort of male ideal as a whole that we don’t often see praised on screen these days. Your “heartthrob” appearance wasn’t meaningless. But it wasn’t the whole story, either.

I know that the interviewee ends up responding only to the questions the interviewer asks — and probably he got asked about how he feels about having such an intense fandom, and probably he decided to talk about how he doesn’t make his role choices based on what he thinks will please fandom, and he referred to his discomfort with the idea of being a “heartthrob.” I really wish, though, that sometimes someone — whether interviewer or interviewee — would change the terms of the discussion. I wish that YOU would change the terms of the discussion, Mr. Armitage.

~ by Servetus on December 19, 2015.

140 Responses to “I wish you would turn the discussion on its head for once, Richard Armitage”

  1. I was annoyed by this interview. Do not school me on what I should or should not like for MY entertainment. I’m quite certain you said earlier that you did not watch Hannibal until you were cast. Also Mr. Armitage stop taking your clothes off if you don’t want to be considered a “heartthrob.” You can’t have it both ways. Sorry if I sound snarky.

    Liked by 1 person

    • While I agree with you in general, I’m always ambivalent about the “don’t take your clothes off” argument, for a couple of reasons. One is that it mirrors the “if you don’t want to be assaulted, don’t wear such skimpy clothing” message often sent to young girls. The second is that nudity is a cultural expectation at the moment. The third is more vague and has something to do with the fact that for someone who looks like that, it is hard for viewers to get past the appearance because it is so stunning. In short i think people would still drool over him even if he kept all his clothes on all the time (Thornton).

      Liked by 1 person

      • You make excellent points. The point I was trying to make is that his choices do influence how people see him. I guess having just posted a collage of shirtless Armitage it is fresh in my memory. There are nine shows represented with two topless caps each. Only one uses two caps from the same scene. So that adds up to seventeen shirtless caps in my collage and I didn’t use everything that is available.

        Like

        • I think part of what is bugging me, anyway, is the difference from the summer interview where he said, “I know what I’m selling.” That seemed to imply that he understood the role he was playing and could deal … this seems like a walkback from that.

          Like

          • Something does seem to be changing with him…and it does say “moody actor” on the tin 🙂 It will be interesting to see what 2016 brings….

            Like

    • You don’t sound snarky at all. You hit the nail in the head. He wants to have his cake and eat it.

      Like

  2. Well said Tree. He came over as a bit of a tosser in this interview in my opinion, and there wasn’t much to like. I can’t imagine he endeared himself to anyone – what with patronising the existing fans and whinging about how hard it is to be an actor , vomiting into buckets an’all, and how the poor lamb still doesn’t get recognised…if I’d never heard of RA and was just flicking through the paper, that interview would not make me want to seek him out.

    Maybe Aidan Turner is just a bit more gracious that you are Mr Armitage.

    Like

    • I feel a bit sad that so many people here have taken this ‘interview’ on its face value. The Mirror is a rubbish tabloid and this journalist is obviously having a stir, mentioning two actors and ‘sex appeal’ in the headline in order to get the hits. She has cobbled this together from old stuff and has given his words her special slant. RA talks about AT being in his twenties here: well, he was when AUJ came out – now he’s in his early thirties. He and RA were the ‘hot’ dwarves: RA squirmed when asked about it on the NZ red carpet but AT absolutely revelled in it. As soon as I read this, I thought it didn’t sound like RA. The Hannibal DVD came out in the UK some weeks ago so why should she be promoting it in a UK newspaper? It’s a slow day on her desk, she’s having a bit of a laugh and far too many people have risen to her bait.

      Like

      • So if we’re rising to her bait, why does he keep saying the same things? This interview is not anomalous.

        Like

        • My point is that this is not a new interview but she has taken a comment seen elsewhere and used it in a certain way and with her own slant. And so he’s not saying the same thing again and again. His remarks have possibly been said once and then they are picked up and both tone and meaning and intention are changed. I’m surprised that so many people can’t see this but jump down his throat straight away as if he has behaved like the villain of the year. Most of us have known for years what a nice, decent, thoughtful bloke he is. I really don’t understand why people seem so willing to immediately start telling him off like a child the moment a trashy newspaper, whose articles can’t be believed from one minute to the next, prints a so-called interview.

          Like

          • I think there’s enough material in here that is new. I understand that that is disputed, but these are quotes that are original in form — in straight quotations marks. Those are things he said. And I don’t think his remarks about Turner were “slant,” nor his statement “let’s see if we can change that taste.”

            Finally, if “people” are “jumping down his throat,” that’s fine, but in fact, this post does not jump down his throat. It makes all kinds of allowances for him, the venue, and my own exhaustion. No one here has “told him off like a child.” If you want to have an argument with a specific person, have it, but you’re fighting with a straw man here.

            Like

  3. Well said Servetus and Tree.

    There wasn’t much to like in this interview and RA came over as a bit of a tosser in my opinion.

    What with patronising his existing fan base and whinging about how tough acting is – vomiting into a bucket an ‘all – and how he still doesn’t get recognised still… If I’d never heard of RA this interview would not be encouraging me to look out for him.

    and as for the Aidan Turner comments – well maybe Aidan is just a bit more gracious, which is something RA used to do well but seems to have forgotten.

    (Apologies if this is a repeat – my first attempt disappeared into the ether)

    Like

  4. I’m having a really bad week which I’d also like to throw in the dumpster so this is a ‘take it for what it’s worth’ reply. You were much kinder than I.

    Had it not been for several other times RA has made snide comments about his predominantly female fan base and taking on roles they (we) won’t like or about not getting the big roles I probably would have overlooked this interview as a piece of shoddy journalism. But the reality is, he’s said both sorts of things multiple times in the past so I’m not sure that much was taken hugely out of context (either that or the previous times were too).

    “I feel it as a real challenge to keep challenging that fan base and introducing them to something they wont like. I knew Francis Dolahyde was controversial because I knew a lot of people wouldn’t like him. Because they like you to be a heartthrob or attractive. So I saw that as ‘let’s see if we can change people’s tastes’.”

    I don’t care to be called “that” fan base as if it were a special needs designation. I deeply resent the idea that women are somehow “less than” for liking what they like or need to be challenged by his holiness, St. Richard because, presumably, they can’t do it for themselves. Who says I want you to be a heart throb or attractive Mr. I Know What I’m Selling and Drop Trou at Every Opportunity? There is NOTHING wrong with period pieces or the romance genre. I have a whole lot of thoughts and feelings about the misogynistic implications of that quote but won’t bore you further with it other than to say “who died and appointed you the arbiter of good taste and the saviour of women’s preferences, Mr. Sanctimonious Armitage?”

    “…after three years of wheeling out that film and people still not really realising it was me, it’s frustrating. You go into meetings and castings and they say have I seen you in anything? And you’re like ‘well yeah, I’m in this film…’ and they still don’t market that connection. It doesn’t help you in terms of an afterlife.”

    Which is it that you want? An indie career or a big Hollywood career or both? If you want both, you’ll have to do Hollywood first or wait a few years in Indie-land. If you want Hollywood, then go for it! But check yourself a little bit first. Why in the name of all that’s tinsel town do you presume that an unknown British TV actor who’s had a third billed, supporting movie role and one very minor role in film should be doing the lead in ANY big Hollywood movie or catch the attention of the big A list directors/casting agents? How about understanding that you’re going to have to do some pretty great work in minor roles before you get the notice of the A list productions!!!! Heinz Kruger and Thorin are his Hollywood resume … and it’s not a sekrit how much Hollywood didn’t care for The Hobbit. If he had done good work in as many minor Hollywood roles as he’s done little indies, failing tv show guest role (no offense to Hannibal – I liked his performance but the show was on the chopping block since halfway through the first season), and voice work, he’d probably be getting supporting roles instead of minor ones and be that much closer to leading roles.

    Don’t get me wrong – I have nothing against any of his role choices because I think each of them has something interesting. But you can’t do those small indie films and then whinge because the Big Boys don’t recognize you.

    Don’t whine about the career you don’t have while undercutting the fans who have supported you through the decidedly un-romantic career (psychopaths, traitors, drug dealers, murderers) that you do have. Badly done, sir! Badly done!

    Like

    • Well said! I too have seen many similar sentiments made in other interviews. A friend said to me “It’s a blessing and a curse that we have read so many of his interviews in a relatively short time.” Patterns emerge.

      Something else struck me as I read your comment AJ. Most of the people who I’ve talked to about this interview have prefaced their comments with something like …Take this for what it’s worth, I’m having a bad week, I’m at the end of my rope, etc. or in my case ended with an apology. My question is why do we feel the need to apologize for disliking HIS bad interview? Is it fear of what other fans will think or do we feel like we don’t have the right to criticize St. Richard? Does it make us bad fans or bad people to have an opinion?

      Like

      • It absolutely doesn’t, dear, in my book anyway… We should be able to discuss things like adults & friends ❤ even if we don’t agree on every little thing about him! 🙂 He’s complex, and we are all equally so!!

        Like

      • I think a lot of it is fear people have of other fans, or perhaps, better put, exhaustion with drama. I’ll just shut up about what I think rather than risking someone riding in to condescend to me about how I am “taking things at face value” or whatever.

        Like

    • I really strongly agree with the point about not needing to apologize for what we enjoy watching. I’m running into this a lot lately (something similar) with this year’s batch of “Why I Hate Christmas” posts on the net — lots of intellectual ones written this year. I have a tortured relationship with Christmas myself but I think it’s not the done thing to condescend to someone because they enjoy the cultural version of it that predominates today.

      Like

    • Do you see his fan mail? Probably not. So maybe you don’t really know what his fanbase does and does not say to him. Also, I don’t really think he refers to his fanbase as women, the interviewers always do that. So, assertion that his comments are “snide” is your perception only. Stating from his experience of his fan interaction that many of his fans want to see romcoms or period romances are true for all we know and him saying that is not “snide”, is a comment, a statement of fact from his personal experience. Many fans (and I don’t distinguish between male and female fans — to do so to me infers that males do not have feelings or issues as deep as women and so only want action and violence whereas as we woman want soft and squishy and pretty – personally I like a good action movie just as much as a good romance or historical or whatever — good is good) ..so.. many fans (from twitter comments and blog comments I have read) WERE upset about Strike Back, or Hannibal, and probably Heinz Kruger (he was a Nazi after all). In interviews I have read or seen my impression is that he recognizes concerns people have regarding violence and gore but hopes they will stick with him as fans regardless, whether they watch the performance or not. And in my view he is saying that perhaps they will be surprised and like the performance/show if they try it. Yes, art and entertainment covers the gamut of human nature and experience and an actor in it for not only for the money but also for fulfillment will want to try on the ugly, beautiful, horrific. What separates art and entertainment as prurient or not is individual and not for me to judge. I will not watch SAW and don’t understand why anyone would enjoy that type of movie as entertainment. On the other hand, not having watched it how can I judge? It’s not a black or white issue for me. For an actor to play Dolarhyde must be tempting to stretch their craft. Also working with Bryan Fuller, the produccers and the cast of the show was professionally and artistically fulfulling and will open many more professional doors. But I highly doubt that was the only reason he took the role and I don’t believe his is disengenuous regarding his passion for the character and preparation for that role in interviews. I don’t think he is trying to ‘sell’ it to us.

      Regarding Richard Armitage as a sanctimonious misogynist… highly insulting to him and to me as a ‘fan’ of Richard Armitage. I have raised two daughters with understanding that it was not that long ago that women in Canada did not have the right to vote, the right to birth control, the right to even get a car loan with a male guarantor, etc. etc. They were raised with an appreciation of Nellie McClung and Gloria Steinem and many others and they are young self sufficient women. A man can be in part judged by the company he keeps and an apparent deep and mutual affection with Yael Farber in my mind would seem to make the insinuation and outright statement that RA is a sanctimonious misogynist highly suspect. Sorry, that statement really stuck in my craw. Venting here.

      Like

      • oops, should have been ‘without’ a male guarantor. It bothers me 30 years later that although I had money in the bank and stable employment I couldn’t get a car loan with my Dad cosigning.

        Like

      • I don’t know why I can’t leave this alone tonight. Comments about him being insensitive to women, a misogynist, Saint Richard are offensive to me. I was gang raped at 14. I am not a victim. There are lasting effects and I understand people have triggers and strong feelings regarding Hannibal and FD. Everyone deals with trauma differently. I feel lost in trying to express how I feel regarding entertainment and violence because I am able to separate and compartmentalize and push it to the back but I am reading others dont – others have triggers. Reading blogs and comments to the blogs teaches me and opens me up to others thoughts and experiences and I am learning and trying to understand other viewpoints. Being able to watch a rape scene in a movie is disturbing but it doesn’t stress me because of my personal experience. It doesn’t mean I am stronger, perhaps I am weaker because I deal with things by not dealing with them. It’s hard to explain. I do not like to be in rooms with other people with a closed door, other than family members. Which is strange because what happened to me happened outdoors, not indoors. I don’t often think about why that is. But I do know why that is. Well…TMI I am thinking!

        Like

        • I’m sorry to read about your experiences. (((sparkhouse1))).

          There is no one way, and certainly no one right way, to process trauma. We’re all just getting through life, one way or the other, and some people have much more severe challenges than others. I think what’s troubling to people who are bothered by this “let’s just change our taste” statement is the implication that if you just tried it, maybe you’d change your mind. If we think of triggers as something like an allergy, it’s a bit as if one said to someone with a severe peanut allergy, oh, a little bit won’t bother you. Not everyone has processed trauma in that way — but for those who have, the idea that watching violence is a taste is beyond problematic.

          Like

          • I don’t know why I revealed that last night and I apologise for doing that on your blog. It is not something I have ever discussed with anyone (except my ex husband) and again I apologise for doing that on your blog. I certainly wasn’t looking for sympathy and I don’t know why that came to the fore but for some reason I became overwhelmed with feelings and memories I hadn’t had for quite a long time and it got me thinking …. anyways, I am not one to dwell in the past. Anyways, thank you for the rousing discussion your posts so often generate, it is always good to read what you carefully lay out and what others think on the subject you write about. Once I settled down I began to understand more about what you mean regarding “I wish you would turn the discussion on its head for once, Mr. Armitage”. I hope you, Servetus, and everyone else who comments on your blog has a peaceful and as happy as possible holiday!

            Like

            • Hey, sparkhouse1, no worries, you were obviously distraught. Let me know if you want me to edit / delete those posts. Happy holidays to you, too.

              Like

        • I’m so sorry to hear about what happened to you :”'(
          You beautifully expressed another perspective on depictions of trauma, and I appreciate being sensitized to it. Hugs to you ❤ and thank you for being willing to share.

          Like

      • On this point (shades of misogynism), I agree with AJ. The entire discourse about female fans in mainstream media is misogynist, and every time Armitage simply accepts that without questioning, he lets that shadow be cast over himself.

        Like

  5. Reading this interview it read like the “writer” used bits from other interviews. As for what Richard had to say, I really don’t think he knows what appeals to women. I was a fan of Hannibal before he was cast as Dolarhyde and was excited to see what he could do with the role. It wasn’t about “sex appeal”. Even when he took his shirt off in The Crucible, I didn’t view him as “Richard takes off his shirt”. I viewed it as a character in a vulnerable position and in an intimate moment with his wife. Very patronizing comment about women IMO. RA tends to remind me of Daniel Day Lewis as far as looks and the way they tackle acting. DDL is a chameleon with his roles and is the same way with his “sex appeal”.

    Like

    • I was actually surprised by how many Armitage fans were Hannibal fans already — and yeah, it wasn’t about sex appeal. Of course, you guys didn’t need to have your tastes changed.

      Like

  6. Thanks for writing about this Serv!
    For me this article pushed all the wrong buttons…

    Like

  7. As Valsgal1999 said, I’ve seen comments elsewhere that this interview has been cobbled together from older pieces as there’s no reason for him to do a new interview because there’s nothing for him to promote. I wonder if the slightly patronising feel to it may also be that the reporter has taken his words, whenever he said them, and put a different spin on them (heartthrob actor wanting to be taken seriously), as RA doesn’t come across here as the usually self-effacing actor that we’re used to reading about.

    Like

    • I think he’s promoting the Hannibal Season 3 DVD. There are new bits here that were not in the other interviews and more current references than previous times he’s said these things, so it may be a very poorly written piece, but I believe it is new.

      Like

      • I agree that it’s new, and also agree that the statements are in line with those in his more recent interviews. So yeah, we’ve been giving him a pass on stuff that he maybe didn’t deserve.

        Like

  8. Encore un discours plein d’hypocrisie , où je n’ai que des doutes, des exclamations et des interrogations sur ce qu’il dit. Il adore brouiller les pistes et dire le vrai et son contraire. Dommage cela fait disparaître le peu de crédibilité quant à son honneteté restante. Il ne changera jamais, un caméléon, qui devient une marionnette du théâtre de sa propre vie. Je suis triste de l’image, qu’il donne. Il se perd encore plus dans ses contradictions, à l’image de Thorin dans un tourbillon un maestrÖm d’or.
    Soit il accepte de reconnaître chercher l’approbation du public, des fans, soit avouer vouloir s’en défaire. Il ne peut chercher à éviter tout système de starification avec les travers de l’idolatrie et y aspirer en même temps par exemple en se dénudant dans ses films.
    Il devrait consulter un psy, car il fait de plus en plus preuve de signes de dédoublement et de confusion. En jouant le prestidigitateur, il va perdre le peu de sens de la réalité sur lui même , ses fans et le monde extérieur. Les fans ne peuvent pas toujours être manipulés , bernés et traités comme des pantins, par ce qu’il dit et fait.

    Like

    • Je préfèrerais un discours sur l’art , les recherches d’authenticité et d’antériorité dans son travail au cinéma ou au théâtre, que celui sur les préoccupations sur son image physique chez ses fans. Trop futile et self centré.

      Like

    • Ses fans ne sont pas sa propriété. Ils sont des êtres humains, pas des objets manipulables ou modelables en fonction de l’image qu’il en veut. S’il veut vraiment se séparer d’une partie de ses fans , qu’il prenne des rôles encore plus radicaux, plus choquant où il casse réellement son image de beau gosse, qu’il leur avoue franchement ce qu’il rejette chez eux et surtout pourquoi.

      Like

    • I acknowledge that it is not in his interest to say everything he might think or believe. I just hope he continues to be able to distinguish.

      Like

  9. Parabéns, Serve 🙂
    Sr. Armitage, You are perfect for mi…

    Like

  10. Serv, well-said (as always). Wish he’d read your blog — might do him good to read his fans’ reactions to his interviews.

    Like

    • I don’t know that he should read what we have to say — he has to be who he is and that’s easier if you’re not listening to the chorus of fans, of course.

      Like

  11. I never cared much for the Mirror.
    The rhetoric in this piece is true to the overall style of this (biip): snarky and negative.

    Like

    • Thanks for corroborating that 🙂 The writing / editing style of this put me in mind of Tanya Gold’s infamous article (though a little more subtle than she, imho 🙂

      Like

  12. You summarized SO beautifully and succinctly what we love about Thornton, Serv….much more than a “pretty face”. I’m perplexed that Richard still doesn’t get it…. or doesn’t want what he’s gotten. I wish he could just relax with the sexy (that sounds funny, but I think it’s what I mean 🙂 ….he’s evidently convinced that sexy actors can’t be taken seriously for their abilities? I’m sorry someone has done that, or if he’s making that an excuse…..Truthfully though, I do suspect the editing in this article too- the Mirror is apparently a tabloid, from what I’m seeing on Twitter…. We know he was apprehensive about the fans’ reaction to Hannibal & I suspect the Mirror left out a lot of connective tissue that probably would have made it sound less “bald”.

    And Tree – game, set & match on that, lady 🙂 Lots of mixed messages, clearly….. And I have too many possible theories, as usual 🙂 Wonder what’s going on in Berlin right now?? (Or when this interview occurred? This often seems to affect how he interviews 🙂

    Like

    • There’s a very old interview in which he said that fan letters had revealed to him that what women want is traditional romance and at the time I thought, no, that’s not it either …

      Hypothesizing that part of the problem for him is that he doesn’t design the characters (or most of them anyway) to be specifically romantically attractive / successfully appealing so he doesn’t automatically get why the viewer sees them that way.

      Like

  13. The article was a yawn and if I wasn’t interested in Armitage, I would have stopped reading after a few sentences (when they use words like “broodingly handsome,” I do cringe). He didn’t come off sounding very nice at all, and I am not going make excuses for what his own “intentions” might be. The fact is, he has repeatedly made comments about disliking the female attention he gets and a condescending attitude about the older roles he had which made him famous. He was oh so thrilled to be Thorin, and yet he whines that he was not “recognized.” When he is “recognized” by women he finds it tiresome. I’m thinking Armitage is sounding a bit like a spoiled little boy who wasn’t picked for the “A” team yet. I won’t even get into my feelings about what he said about Dolarhyde and what that might mean about his feelings toward women in general. What he said there reeked of misogyny and shows how clueless he is about how violent sex offenders might be viewed by many female victims in society. (Yes, I know Dolarhyde was not a sex offender in the TV show. He has sex with his corpses in the novel. Enough said). If he cannot understand that many people who have been victimized simply cannot watch that kind of rubbish, and that it’s not a matter of “taste”, then he is really is becoming a complete narcissist.

    Like

    • I think the issue that I have the most sympathy with is role frustration, but that’s an issue that affects most people.

      and Amen about the question of victimized spectators.

      Like

  14. The tone in this interview didn’t sound like Richard to me, somehow. I have the feeling it’s someone writing up stuff from old interviews with some new soundbites thrown in.

    Like

    • I think it’s new, but you know, in essence, if he says the same thing over and over again that’s actually more of an indictment than if it’s a one off.

      Like

  15. Well said,Serv. Now I have a strong need to add that He shouldn’t be worried about his “heartthrob status” anymore… it’s a swang song 😉

    Like

  16. He came off as a total prick in this interview yet it’s The Mirror that published it (and it genuinely looked like they’ve chopped up various interviews and did a quick copy and paste until they got the end result that we read just now), so take it with a grain of salt, yeah?

    The amount of contradictions in what he (supposedly) said in this interview compared to previous ones is laughable. Likes his anonymity yet it frustrates him that no one recognises him? Cue Justin Bieber’s “What Do You Mean?”

    But like I’ve said before; take it with a grain of salt ‘coz it is The Mirror and therefore could very well be a load of bullocks entirely.

    Happy Christmas!

    Like

    • Thanks for the comment and welcome.

      Note the many references in the original post to “take my opinion for what it’s worth” and the many commentators who have said the same.

      Also note the many references to “what can we expect from the entertainment press.”

      The real question is what we can expect from Richard Armitage.

      Like

      • Do you really still expect a lot from him?
        (I don’t mean his acting etc. I mean – regarding any platforms where he chooses to share his personal views on things).

        Like

        • what a great question.

          Like

          • As usual I don’t get it. We want to know the ‘real Richard Armitage’ but heaven help him if he says, does, thinks, expresses any view, feeling or thought that isn’t respectful, politically correct, should have known this would affect this person this way but that person that way. Seriously, glass houses anyone? And a journalist putting something in quotes in no way, in this day and age, do I 100% believe are actually quoting the interviewer verbatim. And snippets taken from here and there must totally change the meaning and tone of what is actually said or meant. Being ‘recognized’ professionally when being considered for a role is totally different than being recognized in public so I don’t think he is whinging about his fans or how hard it is to be an actor. He has done some good work and because he does look so different in each role he takes on I can totally see how casting directors, producers and all don’t recognize that he is the same person when he walks into a room. ON the one hand he does well because he immerses in a role, but it is a two edged sword because for the same reason they don’t know it is him. I didn’t like the article but for me it was the article, not RA that I didn’t like. I would not think he would ever intentially demean Aiden Turner or Daniel Craig and imply that he was better than them. I hope my opinion has not offended anyone if it has I don’t mean to. I’m not defending RA, my feelings are entertainment reporting in general is just not very reliable.

            Like

            • I guess what I’m saying is I want to hear what RA has to say warts and all. And if he makes a misstep so be it. Who doesn’t. I’m sure I offend people right left and centre – totally unintentional of course because I think I am a flawed but basically good person. I would rather that than have him monitor his opinions to appease everyone. Because there is no way in this world one can make everyone happy and always say and do the right thing — it must be stressful and exhausting to try and be so perfect — and what would be the point if after all that one is still called St. Richard, Mr. Perfect, etc.. If Richard Armitage is a racist misogynist pig then I want to know that. I don’t want to be fed a self monitored scrubbed version of him. Because then it would only be yet another part played..the part of Richard Armitage, instead of Richard Armitage, the human being.

              Like

              • I love these comments, Sparkhouse ❤ I doubt that he will show us many of his warts (at least on purpose) since I think interviews, twitter and other public contacts fall under the category of work/marketing for him…. but I too would be happy for him to just express himself rather than worry too much about what we want to hear or play a part, as you said 🙂

                Like

              • Sparkhouse – I agree with a lot of what you say. I am also interested in what RA really thinks and one of the reasons I started following this topic is because this was, for me, a bit of an insight, and something we see less and less of as he gets better at handling interviews. I wondered if he was feeling frustrated that the roles he hoped to get following TH have not materialised. I also wondered if he was being a bit defensive. Both of those feelings are quite understandable and reasonable in my book – I think we can all relate to feeling disappointed and snarky at times. He may also just have been having a bad day.

                However, some fans seem to be very uncomfortable with the notion that he might actually be human, have bad days and say the wrong thing. I stand by what I said initially – that the ARTICLE makes him look a bit of a tosser and that if I had never heard of him ( and was therefore unfamiliar with other aspects of his personality we have seen – his kindness and generosity to name but two) I wouldn’t be in a rush to find out more. For me the jury has always been out about how accurate the article is but several people whose opinion I respect have said they think that at least the quotes are genuine.

                During this debate ( I’m following this and Amitage Antagonistes but cannot comment on what is going elsewhere) the view that anyone who criticises the saintly RA should not be following, and why is it we have to be ‘constantly’ complaining, nagging, bring the poor man down..has been repeated. I’ve also seen the word ‘naive’ used to describe those who believe there is a grain of truth in the interview.

                As someone wisely said ( apologies, I have lost track of who, and which thread) , this argument says much more about us – and the investment we have in him – than it does about him.

                I keep thinking what a burden it must be to be regarded as perfect.

                Like

              • I think he has the right to say what he thinks — as does every human. I have the right to evaluate what he says and respond on that basis — as does every human. I think he would be better off if he did not think about what his fans might want or how they might react to things he says.

                As far as “the real Richard Armitage,” while we might want to know him, we might not. I agree that the price of hearing things directly from him (e.g. on Twitter) means that we will see more things that look like warts to us, and in general (see comments in September of 2014) I think this is a positive process. However, even though he tweets now, i don’t think any of us knows that — whether people think he’s a saint or the opposite. We are all dealing with our pictures of him. You may not, but there are clearly, clearly people in this fandom who do see him as St. Richard.

                The thing about him making a misstep is this — some missteps are lategly non-issues for most people (cat vs dog). Some missteps can be dealbreakers. And that is individual for each of us as an observer.

                Like

                • It wasn’t a non issue for the cat lovers- some of them were incandescent about that.

                  Like

                  • Seriously? 😀 That was before my time, but most men I know seem to prefer dogs to cats 🙂

                    Like

                  • yes (I think I said “largely” a non issue). If that’s your identity moment, it can be a misstep. But while I don’t think cat / dog is a major issue (and certainly not something I’d spend a lot of time on emotionally myself, although analytically it’s fascinating) I think that’s part of a normal process. Precisely because we don’t perceive celebs as people — they are, for all of us, extensions of ourselves. Jennifer Lawrence was interviewed yesterday on NPR and was frustrated that there are apparently people out there who will turn off a movie star because s/he doesn’t like popcorn (she was citing that as a facetious example) and I thought, wow, while I understand why you think that is silly, if you don’t understand why that is the case, you really don’t “get” fandom as a process or state of mind.

                    Like

                  • oh, and in the interest of full disclosure, one of the people most offended by the cat comment was a close fan friend of mine at the time.

                    Like

  17. Je comprendrai qu’avec une telle vision de ses fans, ceux-ci finissent en cette fin d’année par se détourner des audiobooks, DVD (Hannibal , version longue LBDCA=TABA) et des dons aux associations caritatives.

    Like

    • I still think this is individual and essentially capitalistic. People who like the produce will keep buying it, I suspect.

      Like

  18. My initial comment this morning didn’t post so I try again: My reaction this morning was that this might have been a short phone interview which was then enriched with bits and pieces of “information” from other articles. I wonder whether The Mirror run it through his agents… I don’t put RA on a pedestal, and some of the things he has previously said or done have made me cringe but this “interview” is just badly written. It joins bits and pieces which in my opinion just don’t fit. To me the article is unimportant and certainly no cause to be annoyed (and I am writing this after a particularly challenging week 😉)
    I guess we can agree to disagree this time? 😊

    Like

    • Sure 🙂

      I don’t think that this is a matter of pedestal / no pedestal, though. I think it has something to do, though, with the self-identification of fans as people whose desires are legitimate. I’m frustrated when an interview that’s potentially about a role or a project ( the Hannibal DVD) turns into something, yet again, about his fans — and I’m frustrated with the ongoing discourse of the journalists that involves fan bashing. As a side to that, I’m frustrated with Armitage when he goes along with it — even unthinkingly or unknowingly.

      Like

      • I can sort of see where you’re coming from but to me this interview truly isn’t all that important and I am still dubious as to what his precise words and the interviewer’s precise questions were. Quotation marks don’t necessarily mean that the words quoted were actually said.
        As far as I can tell he has usually been very appreciative of the support he has had from his fans. As you know I have never watched Hannibal as even my interest in RA will never entice me into watching a series like that. I did watch Strikeback on DVD and liked it although action series like that aren’t my usual TV diet either.
        Tbh, with all the things going on in Africa now I feel I am unable to rewatch it atm. I am only saying this as regardless of how big a fan I am of an actor/an actress, they will never be able to make me watch them in any given role. This might make me a lesser fan but I don’t care.
        Since the interview was published RA posted his christmas message and I was quite surprised (and pleased) to see how outspoken he was on the subject of xenophobia / Trump and the refugees. Somehow I always thought he might be too cautious to express his political views in order not to annoy some of his fans or any potential producers / directors. In my opinion RA is just like most of us. We sometimes talk cr*p (well, at least I do that 😉 ) and sometimes talk sense. In the line of my work I have been interviewed by the local newspapers a few times and even they managed to misquote what I actually said, thus giving a completely different sense to my original statements…
        Whatever happened during the interview with The Mirror, I’ll guess we’ll never know 😉

        Like

        • It’s a journalistic convention, though, that material in quotation marks has actually been said, and to me, especially the end of this interview sounds exactly like free associating Armitage, so I find that credible. I agree that newspapers misquote. Nonetheless, I think there’s a pretty clear need to employ Occam’s razor here.

          re: Africa, of course. And Syria. And I don’t even know what all. But that doesn’t make the concerns of fans illegitimate. People can care about both what is happening in the world and what an actor says. It’s not a matter of lesser. I’m certainly judging anyone else’s fandom. People are fans in the way that they are fan. Over the years, the identity of “fan” has become increasingly important to me and that means I see statements about fans in certain places.

          I think I will reserve comment on Armitage’s message. I do agree that it is of a piece with things he has said recently. Also, I do appreciate the note about the far Right. I think I’ll leave it at that.

          Like

  19. Sigh, i’m much less upset about this than yesterday i have to say, probably because i’m less tired. And also because i’ve admitted to myself that after a very hard half year i was looking forward to his Xmas message as a sort of positive or peaceful end. With everything around me changing and feeling like quick sand i sort of clung subconsciously to that sort of certainty. So this was an unwelcome surprise. The resulting tone offended me but it is probably the result of the chopping job done by the paper (which is as good as the ‘daily fail’). What annoyed me most was the resulting tone of disrespect towards other colleagues’ work and the derogatory tone about some of their projects. But in hindsight that is probably very much the result of the taking out of context. I just don’t think there would ever be that intention in any of his statements, because he is so sensitive himself about some earlier roles.
    It just doesn’t stick together with the intelligent man i hear speak live, which is what jarred for me most. I underline, not handsome, intelligent and talented. I’m doubtful the word heartthrob came from him, in any case it would never occur to me when describing him, he just isn’t that.
    The part that made me sad was the assertion about Thorin being mainly about the ability of wielding a sword. I’d like to think that in spite of the memory of the physical effort, he knows it was much more than that. PJ could have hired any number of sword-wielders more physically apt if that had been the main requirement.
    As to Hannibal i can but hope those assertions are very much out of context because we’ve been through that controversy before. I’d again hope that in the aftermath of it he realise that those who could and would watched it, in many cases for him and respected his work even though we disliked the subject. I’m not going to hesitate to call it hypocritical should he point fingers to those who couldn’t or wouldn’t watch since he didn’t even do so himself. If the duality of wanting to challenge himself as an actor but still retaining ones tastes which don’t include the horror genre is ok for him he should know he has no right to judge duality and such conflict in his fans. If we accept his conflicting feelings and statements about some things as human doubts and insecurities, so should he be able to accept it in his fans.
    I do accept there will certainly be moments of deep frustration in his career, when he doubts and wonders why his work isn’t recognised (it would only be human) i think interviews are part of his professional appearance and he can’t really vent, it doesn’t look good on anyone and doesn’t do him any favours. Anyone will have bad days at work, but he just can’t forget his day at work is in front of thousands of people. His work ethics are something i’ve respected about him…
    Personally, i’m over the whole ‘attractive’ subject. If those were the only kind of roles he’d be offered i’d give him some leeway to complain so much, but that’s not the case. Neither does he have millions of women throwing knickers at him, so chill! It’s only sometimes what i see in him and it certainly never is the only attribute or the overriding one, there’s prettier people out there. It’s his work, his brain and most of the time his personality what i like and what makes him attractive, not his big nose or his blue eyes. His one romantic role, Thornton, is not my cup of tea and he’s not heartthrob material as an actor in my opinion, way too intense.
    It’s not romantic stories i was necessarily craving to see, but simply human ones, no spies or sword wielding baddies or furry dwarves, no murderers. Just people, even if conflicted and flawed and troubled ones like Proctor. I just badly badly crave human stories, with sadness, happiness, emotions, passions, disappointments, etc I feel he’s challenged himself a lot playing the ab-normal, i’d like him to do more of the normal, as that takes maybe a whole different slew of acting detail and i’d like to see it from him.
    So yes, i am frustrated that while so many of us can see all that and be interested in all that he seems to not hear or see it but for quick flashes and what is stuck in his mind is his own obsession and frustration and possibly critique and unsatisfactory with his physique. I think it’s quite likely none of us are even remotely as preoccupied with it as he is and nothing we say or do seems to be able to moderate that, which makes me sad because all i want to say is: there is so much more to you than your outer shell R, you are the only one who doesn’t seem to see it and you infer about people thoughts which are not theirs but probably more likely yours.’

    I wish he’s manage to be as articulate, intelligent and sensitive in his interviews as he’s been in face to face encounters and QAs with fans. This makes me sad so i’ll stick to the memories of the man who answered my questions in Leeds (simply because that was very much the same man i got to know on stage as Proctor and heard talk about his roles around the same time and saw at SD or in Leeds interact with people (and animals 😉 ).

    Like

    • Gosh Hari, I like that!! You have a way with words!!! Yeah, that’s how I experienced him too. Loved your questions then…and his answers….

      Liked by 1 person

    • I simply love this comment, Hariclea, thank you for it!
      I wish he could read it too, it might do his heart good ❤

      Liked by 1 person

    • Thanks Hariclea (and Servetus of course) – many if not all my thoughts put into the right words!

      Like

    • Great comment.

      If I recall correctly, he said one of the things he enjoyed most of the role was “making him fight,” so I can’t imagine the sword fighting was something that he wholeheartedly despised. Is this self-deprecation?

      Liked by 1 person

      • Who knows to me it sounded like a bit of frustration about the lack of recognition the role got. I feel the same it is ultimately unfair that just because it is considered fantasy loads of people never recognised the depth of the role and the work that went into it. If he’d been some gun wielding soldier the same people would have been more impressed I guess. Beh to prejudice. And I think a lot was probably cut of what he said about Thorin. I hope the overriding feeling about the experience is not frustration at the end of the day ☺

        Like

    • Why is he so articulate in face to face interviews and so poor in these written interviews, you ask? Well, perhaps it’s because you can’t fake something that’s televised, or not easily, anyway. But, you can put your own slant on the written word. You can cut things out and change the tone and emphasise the things you wish to emphasise and practically rewrite what a person has said. I just wish that people would have more faith in the man whom we see talking on screen or on stage rather than in these awful ‘interviews’ written by suspect newspapers.

      For instance:

      Journalist: Do you think your long-term fans who were first attracted to your performance in N&S actually watched you in Hannibal?

      RA: Yes, I believe that some of them watched it even though it wasn’t their usual genre and some found out that they enjoyed it.

      Interpretation by Mirror: RA believes that he can change the tastes of his fans.

      Liked by 1 person

      • See Kathy Jones’ comment below about how we have to build an elaborate framework to continue to attribute to him certain sentiments. Your statement is a good example of what she is talking about.

        And he’s not exclusively poor in written interviews. He’s bad face to face interviews and good written ones.

        Like

        • The good written interviews are by journalists with decent reputations, writers who know how to capture the spirit of the person they are interviewing and aren’t trying to trick them into dishing the dirt like The Mirror tends to do. I ‘construct’ a scenario not because I believe he is perfect: I think he is a decent, ordinary bloke who needs to be cut a bit of slack because he is, in fact, merely ordinary and I can imagine the sort of questions that have been put to him and the parts of his remarks they have chosen to omit. So many people here are ‘disappointed’ in him as if he has slipped from that pedestal they have put him on. Lower your expectations and there will be little to discuss here because he has said nothing, IMO, that can be described as offensive.

          For instance, the remarks about AT must have been made some years ago (during the AUJ premiere?) when AT was in his late twenties. If RA mentioned his age a few weeks ago, he would have known that he is now in his thirties: after all, they went through enough birthdays out in NZ together to know each other’s ages. At the AUJ, Aidan was really enjoying being the hot dwarf whilst RA thought he, persinally, was too old, even then, to be a hunk.

          And I remember very clearly a huge proportion of his fans saying that Strike Back wasn’t their genre and that they weren’t going to watch it – and then they did and thought it was really good. He actually did change tastes there. He likes his old fans and I’m sure he wants to take us with him on his journey rather than just acquiring new ones. I expect he was hoping that at least some would watch Hannibal and appreciate what he was trying to achieve (and I know a few who have done so who usually dislike the genre and have found both him and the series quite brilliant). As far as I’m concerned, that’s all he meant about hoping to change tastes. Perhaps I’m naive but I always try to put the best possible interpretation on a situation rather than the worst.

          What appals me is that this thread has attracted 70-80 posts telling him how offensive he is being, but his Xmas letter, full of kind and thoughtful remarks has attracted only 8. It’s much easier to have a go at people for perceived ‘offences’ than it is to cheer them on when they are being decent.

          Like

          • I guess we’ll have to differ over whether this was a new interview. I believe I read on imdb that someone asked the interviewer when she did it, and she said two months ago. So I stand by my position that this was an actual interview and the things that he is quoted as saying in it are actual quotes.

            I am suspicious about whether people’s tastes changed because they watched one action-adventure series. Lots of people who wouldn’t have seen it watched Strike Back, it’s true, including me, but I have watched exactly zero items in that genre since then. As I acknowledged, many people saw Hannibal because of him, and I can imagine that some went on to the less violent pieces of Bryan Fuller’s oeuvre (Pushing Daises, for instance). But I can’t imagine that there’s been a big movement of Armitage fans into horror, gore, violence, etc. watching as a consequence of seeing him in Hannibal. Neither is it the case that if you started watching Hannibal admiring Armitage’s work, and finished it doing the same, your taste has changed.

            I’m sorry that you’re appalled by this discussion, but I think every person has a right to their reaction, and to articulate it in places where that is allowed, according to the comments policy / terms of service. This is one place where fans are allowed to react negatively to Richard Armitage. Not everyone has to be a fan in the way that you choose to be one, just as not everyone has to be a fan in the way that I choose to be one.

            Finally, if you think Richard Armitage reads this blog, you are mistaken. And you’re not reading well if you call the vast majority of comments in this thread “telling him how offensive he is being.” Most of these comments are thoughtful and reflecting and they express their frustration in sophisticated ways.

            re: Xmas, I’ll leave that for another comment. I’m in the middle of a cross continental move, and I have had limited time to write prose for the last little while.

            Like

          • I agree, jaydee, about being disappointed in the inequity of responses. Is it human nature to comment more about a person’s perceived failings than on their positive attributes or actions?

            Like

          • You can add my reply to his Christmas message as number 9

            Like

      • And I guess I don’t get why I should “have faith” in him. Why should I have faith in an actor who I don’t know?

        Like

      • I believe the challenge part was his own opinion however but I suspect he was more hopeful people would try the new roles rather than the way it is expressed here. It’s not a question of fate as I do recognise the manipulation but the fact that I do sometimes disagree with some of his statements. Mostly in the journalists and often his own opinion about the romantic preference in our interest in his roles. But people are very different and although its not his physique what makes him most interesting to me I see nothing wrong in enjoying it on and off screen. It is part of an actors appeal and beauty is one of the pleasures in life. I wish press and people would stop making people feel guilty about being handsome and enjoying it. I am really tired of the journalistic prejudice that fans are in it mostly/only for his looks. I wish he would express opinions contrary to this prejudice. As mentioned I stick to my memories of his long forms of communication on less topical subjects. But sadly sometimes the only piece of new info or communication we have are such bad pieces of journalism so it’s not easy.

        Like

        • Thanks for picking up one of the main themes of my post, as expressed in the title — that although there’s nothing unexpected in this interview, reading it made me weary, and I wished that Armitage would occasionally counter the stereotypes with which he is confronted.

          Liked by 1 person

  20. When I first read this yesterday I did roll my eyes and think to myself the the Mirror has not changed since I lived in the UK. However, the direct quotes are RA – he made those statements at some point and even taking into consideration that the journalist cobbled the piece together with the intention of maligning fans, statements such as “let’s see if we can change people’s tastes” shows a complete lack of understanding IMO. As Babette said very well – it’s often not a question of ‘taste’ but a matter of life experience and the need to avoid triggers and what has got under my skin about the whole Hannibal publicity is the lack of understanding of that. And it isn’t the first time RA has made somewhat derogatory statements about the fans – weren’t we all supposed to be clutching our pearls and swooning in horror over the idea of RA being JohnPorter?

    As to the question of why he does it – well my best guess is that it is loyalty to the project he is promoting. When RA is involved in any project, he can be guaranteed to give 100% to it in terms of acting and publicity. I’ve felt he has been slightly defensive about Hannibal – I would have had more respect for him if he had said that he wanted to play Francis to gain a new audience/ to work with Byran Fuller / because his agen thought it was a good idea/ because that was all that was on offer at the time or whatever the true reason was – rather than some of the yarns he has tried to sell to us.

    To be truthful, the whole Hannibal episode has got under my skin ( no bad week here just a simmering resentment that it seems that in RA’s eyes I can’t just pass without it being some kind of failing on my part.)

    Like

    • I guess he can not say exactly why he chose this serie with him as cannibal and with those partners , in full light. So he prefers to attack flan fans and to tease our sensibility.

      Like

    • I think the point about loyalty is right, and no, I certainly don’t expect him to run down a project he’s in. He could have left it at “I really wanted to work with Bryan Fuller and Mads Mikkelsen,” we would have all believed that.

      Like

  21. I have to say that the biggest offense I took was Richard saying Hannibal could/would change my taste. This has been an ongoing issue for me and I keep running into it.

    My mother bled to death in front of me when I was eight months old. We were alone in the room and she was bleeding from her mouth, nose and ears. To repeatedly have Dolarhyde come across my screen with blood pouring out of his mouth is a trigger. I have blocked people, blocked gore and unfollowed people (I am talking about twitter and tumblr.) It didn’t matter how careful I was, it kept showing up. I saw it again this week.

    Some people were lovely – I don’t know if you remember Servetus would say on some posts about Hannibal “Don’t read Tree.” I had a friend who took out all of the gore and sent me the all six episodes so I could see some of Richard’s work. I had a friend start a gore-free dolarhyde blog on tumblr. There were many, many supportive, lovely people. BUT Mr. Armitage, it is not a matter of taste for me. I find it offensive that you would say it is.

    Like

    • I’m so sorry, Tree…. so many people have painful triggers, and I’m glad you’ve been supported by so many people…. and just as sad about the times you haven’t been. Thank you for being willing to share this with us. A hug from my heart isn’t really enough, but it’s what I have ❤

      Like

    • ((((((Tree.)))))))

      Like

    • I’m so, so sorry. My heart goes out to you<3

      Like

  22. I find it frustrating to read something which is presumably quoting his words from his mouth, then, to make him appear less of a dick, we must delve into his psyche, career history, skill of reporter or colour of the socks he wore that day. ( Just kidding about the socks.) St. Richard’s halo definitely slipped a bit that day. Speculation alert! His shelf life as a sex symbol might be limited at this point so he is rejecting it before it rejects him. He sounds a bit frustrated that his career hasn’t gone in the direction or the speed he thought it would. But we really don’t know. Superstardom seems beneath him , but he would like his career to be a little farther along than it currently is. And no heartthrob roles, please. My week has been OK, I just feel he laid on “the poor me” stuff a little thick. Thank God he is unlikely to be selected “sexiest man alive”. Adian Turner might enjoy the title much more.

    Like

    • If fans bother him now, imagine what would happen if superstardom did hit.

      I, too, find myself wondering on a theoretical level on what grounds we make allowances for him (because I do it, too). For instance, I tend to make allowances if I think he is saying something he has to say for publicity reasons — and I, too, am aware of conflicted feelings. I have way less desire to make allowances about what he says about fans.

      Like

      • “If fans bother him now, imagine what would happen if superstardom did hit….*

        That’s always my first thought when someone mentions RA and James Bond

        Like

  23. Tree, that’s just too awful to even comprehend, and you have my full sympathy. That is precisely what I meant when I said he has no idea who his viewers are. My professional world happens to be very much wrapped up in violence, abuse and victimization, so I am pretty sensitive to the fact that not everyone can emotionally tolerate all that is trundled out as “entertainment.” While I have an abnormally high threshold for gore, I acknowledge that many people, such as yourself, have terrible memories surface when they see such things. I find it interesting that this possibility has not apparently occurred to Richard Armitage.

    Like

    • I think that actors must struggle with identity more than the average person. Then again, he said that one reason he struggled with acting was his experience of being bullied. So you’d think.

      Like

  24. So much as already been said about this and like it or not- it definitely bothered me. Hannibal was watched 1 time, I do not like gore nor extreme violence, once seen it is like a movie that keeps playing over in your head and is hard to remove. I cannot even stand to hear about child or animal abuse- somethings you can handle others you can’t. I have followed RA’s career, and have always been mesmerized by his ability to totally mold his characters into someone you have to keep watching. I resent the fact that someone could think my brain does not have enough cells to appreciate physical beauty along with the artistic beauty of someone or thing. I admire RA’s ability to consume himself in a role, but if I find the role repulsive, I will not watch it, even for Mr. A, I will not do that to self. As far as looks vs. acting ability think of it as a beautiful woman, you are desperately attracted to until you find out she is an “Airhead”- you will not stay around. your fans will not stay if all you are is a handsome man. They are much too intelligent and want someone with substance.

    Like

    • well — some people will still stay even if the beauty is an airhead. Some people won’t. But I think (as several people have noted), the point at which people will stay solely because he is beautiful is approaching its end, insofar as he is aging.

      Like

      • I guess over 40 is technically “aging” 🙂 but I think he’s handsomer than ever! And can still work up a body like Francis D’s in what? 10 days?? Lawsie mercy 😀
        So while I’m not really disagreeing on this, I still see plenty of teenage girls falling all over him on twitter, when they could be going for any of the 20-somethings….I think it speaks well for his future 😉

        Like

  25. Fortunately, we’ve now got a Christmas message that sounds so much more like the RA we know.

    The Mirror is the type of “news” channel that I’m very apprehensive about. I have friends, who are well-know in my country, and who sometimes appear in our own tabloids, whether said friends like it or not. I know for a fact that if these tabloid journalists are rejected in a request for an interview, they manufacture their own stories. They copy-paste previous interviews, putting their own slant on them, telling un-truths, presenting the person they “interview” in a bad light (because they rejected the interview), and then presenting it all as “news”.

    All I’m saying is this story could have been manufactured. It seems out-of-character for RA to present two colleagues in a derogatory manner, i.e. Turner and Craig, (Yeah, AT just loves the limelight – Yeah, DC did his best, but there’s more to this franchise…me!), because he would (or should) know it would reflect bad on his own credibility, and he would be perceived as a right tosser.

    Like

    • Thanks for saying that, Mermaid. I know The Mirror well. It was my father’s newspaper and I read it through my childhood and my teens and saw it change from something credible to a whole load of rubbish because it was competing with the trash that is The Sun. Your assessment of how they write ‘articles’ is spot on.

      Like

  26. Thanks for the link to this article. I had missed seeing it. And unless I see & hear Richard Armitage in an uncut video interview, I always wonder about the comments and quotes attributed to Richard Armitage–especially when they start veering off in tone from his earlier remarks, even given the natural evolution of a person’s/RA’s views. Are his comments being quoted correctly? In or out of context? Was there further elaboration by RA that was omitted by the interviewer? Etc. So generally, I’m a skeptical consumer of the entertainment media.

    And people will like or dislike RA’s roles for varying reasons. That’s natural. But especially this year, I am an RA fan who does not “consume” a project simply because he is in it.

    Like

  27. A truth that sticks to the news. In microcytic anemia I am condemned, since this week by my doctors, to swallow iron to regain the strength that was in me. I change my meals with parsley, lens, black pudding, liver, red meat…Also not being a cannibal I should prefer condemning myself to watch movies like Star Wars, Dracula and Hannibal. ‘Let’s see if the doctors can change my blood’s taste’ instead of RArmitage.
    It is not a joke and I hate red blood cells and becoming older.

    Like

  28. […] A quote, or quotes from one of the worst Armitage interviews of recent time. There’s a good discussion of it here.i-wish-you-would-turn-the-discussion-on-its-head-for-once-richard-armitage/. […]

    Like

  29. I recently discovered your blog and have been exploring and enjoying it immensely. I’ve been thinking a lot about the recent Mirror interview and decided to comment.

    Just a small note to begin with: I took RA’s use of the word ‘tastes’ in the interview to relate to the roles fans want to see him take, not ‘tastes’ in particular genres. To me, that’s an important distinction, because it relates to his own feeling of being free or not free to choose and be supported in his choices, not a general desire to ‘enlighten’ his fans.

    I think this is one more example of an interview where Armitage shows that he maintains an awareness of the magnitude of the fandom and some of its responses and attitudes (more than he should, imo) and also communicates the possible discomfort and constraint he feels. I read discomfort in his repeated attempts to deflect the title of ‘heartthrob’ and feelings of constraint in his attempts to ‘convince’ the fandom that they should prefer him to be something other than a heartthrob. I’m not personally offended by his discomfort; it seems understandable to me.

    I think it’s partly RA’s fault that he is too entangled with what goes on in the fandom; he has engaged pretty closely over the years. But, even if he hadn’t, some of its attitudes often impinge on his professional obligations. When he walked out to join a panel for publicizing the ‘Hobbit’ movies, he got whoops and shrieks. There’s an appalling portion of a tv interview on youtube where the interviewer plays a fan vid for Richard simply for the purpose of provoking public embarrassment. The video includes admiring, drool-y text and a clip of the ‘speedo’ scene, among others. (I watch that and feel bad for both the ambushed actor and the fan whose work is the focus of derision on the part of the host and audience.) There’s a difference between fan appreciation and fan drooling. Nothing wrong with the latter (perfectly natural), but I can see how an actor needs to stay detached from it when he’s trying to play roles like John Proctor or Thorin Oakenshield.

    Part of the reason interviewers persist in bringing up his ‘devoted fandom’ (often with the implication that it is crazy or over-invested, is that RA keeps trying to answer these questions in depth, ending up either conveying ambivalence, discomfort and embarrassment, or attempting to ‘guide’ the fandom away from what makes him uncomfortable. The press will continue to ask him about it, and continue to use his ambivalence to provoke his fandom. (Interviewers are perfectly aware of the energy of the response.)

    I’m surprised that RA hasn’t come to the point where he makes use of bland, generic responses when reporters ask him the ‘fandom’ questions.

    IMO, RA should detach more: healthier for him. There’s not enough separation between the actor and the fandom to allow freedom to both.

    Best wishes on your move.

    Like

  30. I think what you really mean to say is “dude, get over yourself” ? LoL Let’s be real, most folks outside of his “fandom” in the US do not really know who he is. I am not trying to put the guy down, but ever since he became a twitter person I have gradually found a lot of distaste towards him. Not because he is the political opposite of me, but because he tries to hide it under the facade of altruism. It’s ok for him to say what he thinks, and then not have to overcompensate in another interview by being overly nice, sensitive, PC. I understand that, I struggle with that myself. As for the hearthrob, I don’t buy it where Hannibal is concerned. Spending half the role in your underwear doesn’t scream “take me seriously as an actor. By the way, here’s my butt.” That role was overtly sexual and strange, and I am pretty sure the producers and his manager knew that well before they went into it. I read the books years ago, and was quite saddened at the glamorization of something fragile, heartbreaking, and awful being translated into nonsensical parody. I had to quit watching.

    Like

    • I would maintain, though, that the responsibility with what to do with the “information” of Richard Armitage in partial undress lies with the viewer. As you said earlier, intentions are separate from deeds. What the various people who have intention “intend,” vs the execution of something, vs what we perceive, vs. the meaning we attribute of it, are all separate pieces of the impact of something. I never think it’s either / or — i.e., that he did or didn’t intend something to be sexually attractive, but rather that it’s probably both. And our own reactions are our responsibility. If we choose to understand something on a sexual level that was meant on a multiplicity of levels, that is our choice as viewer(s).

      I don’t think his altruism is a facade per se — or if so, that’s a huge oversimplification. The real problem is that he’s preachy.

      Like

      • My apologies, facade was the wrong word. I think he does some good things. However, there is definitely a dichotomy going one. Politicians and celebrities are really not that different, both have an agenda to promote themselves and their careers. I think I have said a lot in that regard, i,e, how can you promote being positive while simultaneously promote violence. He said politicians have influence, well so does he. I can’t judge the guy, I am no better. His sphere of influence is pretty strong too. I have asked him about it, but I don’t expect a reply LOL

        I disagree respectfully about Hannibal. While I think a performance can be multifaceted, I also think the entertainment industry is keenly aware of what they are promoting on a conscious and subconscious level.

        Like

        • I think it’s impossible for us to separate things out from each other. That is to say, an author writes one thing, a producer says, “aha, that will be useful to us in marketing” (nudity), a director shoots it in a way to indicate something in particular, a performer executes according to what he thinks he is supposed to be doing, which is also complex (Armitage has artistic as well as personal as well as marketing goals, presumably). And I don’t think we can say (e.g.), Armitage’s decision to do pseudo-Butoh dance moves is a cover for a sales campaign that’s rooted on his nudity. Just as I would say he was cast both because he is a good actor and because he is attractive, and that we can’t separate our analysis of acting from a discussion of the actual appearance of the actor and its qualities, I think all of those things go together, which is part of why people are susceptible to marketing. If every sales campaign announced itself as such, it would be much easier to critique them.

          Like

          • But every actor has a choice about the role they play, and freedom to walk away if they feel their artistic freedom has been compromised or if they disagree on the interpretation of the role. My apologies, I was not trying to be abrasive or uncouth in my original post. I think the role had some good acting qualities but I don’t believe it was a huge departure from previous roles. Many actors have made themselves unattractive to play certain characters. My main point is that I don’t think this role will serve as a catalyst or breakthrough to view him in a completely different light. I don’t think the marketing of the show was rooted exclusively on how he was portrayed, but I believe it served a purpose for them.

            Like

            • Your comment doesn’t violate the comments policy (see on sidebar) and I’m always happy to have smart comments, including those that disagree with my view.

              I think Armitage has more freedom like that (the freedom just to say “no”) than he has ever had in his career, at this point, but again I don’t know that it’s that simple. Theoretically, yes, we all have the freedom not to engage. But most people’s lives don’t work that way; most decisions are made for a variety of reasons with differing levels of meaning rather than on the basis of one decisive one. I would say with roles that involve partial nudity, too, the attitude of a Brit isn’t going to be the same as that of an American; it means something different in our cultural context. Also, I don’t think that most people can see all the consequences of every decision they make in advance. To some extent, the problem of undress is a red herring anyway; the role that made him a “heartthrob” was Mr. Thornton and the most Thornton ever took off was his tie. And Dolarhyde was very repelling despite his beautiful physique.

              re: will it change his career? No — but it was a US TV debut. So hopefully it will lead to other things he wants to do. That’s also not something that people can predict in advance, unfortunately — whether their plans will work or not.

              Like

              • Agreed, Serv, I think Hannibal as a potential US TV debut for Armitage was something he really couldn’t turn down, especially with Bryan Fuller at the helm. Which is part of the frustration, wondering why he can’t just state that as the reason why he took the part, rather than bringing the fandom into it (or allowing us to be brought 🙂

                Like

                • Actually, RA did say in an early interview that one of his main reasons for taking the role was because he wanted to work with Bryan Fuller. And I’m surprised you found him sexual in this role because I, and many others I have spoken to, didn’t. Just because you take off your clothes doesn’t mean you’re being sexy. I can think of lots of reasons why it was a good idea for him to be semi-naked, like the viewer being able to see the dragon trying to burst through his skin or like the book saying he was an attractive and physically well-built man who worked out a lot – and yet, at the same time, his colleagues found him slightly repulsive and weird. I thought he captured that well.

                  And what is wrong with RA hoping that his long-term fans would bring themselves to watch Hannibal because he wanted to share it with them? There’s been a number of occasions when I have tried to change the reading tastes of my husband and friends because something has excited me so much (and they have worked on me in the same way) and sometimes both sides have met with success and it has even enriched us. I really don’t understand, knowing the reputation of the paper, why people have become so easily offended and why they are so ready to believe the slant that has been put on his words – even if they are his words.

                  Like

                  • If he’d stuck with that (“wanted to work with Bryan Fuller”), I think most fans would have gotten it. instead of that, he repeatedly brought fans into it. This interview wasn’t the first time; I wrote at least two posts on this this year. Admittedly, Armitage wasn’t such a pain in the ass on this theme as was Bryan Fuller.

                    re: nakedness — I made the same point, oh, approximately in 2010, and made it above again. So a gain you’re burst through open doors.

                    I think you’re slanting his words now, quite frankly. I still don’t understand the argument whereby direct quotations are not direct quotations, but if he had said, “I hope they will try this out,” again, I imagine there’d have been no problem. People would have said, “no, no thanks,” or “Okay, I will” (I have good fan friends in both groups) and that would have been it. Instead, as has been noted above frequently, the remarks are made in such a way that they suggest there’s something wrong with not wanting to go to this particular place (and for many specttors, gore is a hard line). This isn’t the only interview that made that point in this way.

                    Like

                    • Let me just say, Servetus, that I visit this site most days and there is always an interesting discussion, whether I agree with you or not. I don’t believe it is easy to change a person’s POV on a matter and so we shall never see eye to eye on this one: you put things so forcefully that I just want to make sure that a different opinion is out there for those who haven’t made up their minds on the matter. You think the article is a real interview: I think it has been cobbled together. You think this is typical RA: I think it doesn’t sound anything like him. You believe The Mirror has reported his words accurately: I definitely don’t. You think he is trying to force his fans to watch Hannibal and somehow he is implying there is something wrong with them if they don’t: I think he has such a good opinion of his old fans that he really wants them to follow him on his journey and is a bit sad when they feel they can’t do that. You think he is having a go at AT; I think those remarks were written as long as 2 years ago when Aidan was revelling in being a hot dwarf and they were doubtless all having a laugh about it. You seem to be easily offended: I don’t see what there is to be offended about (especially when his opinions are put out there by The Mirror). You think this: I think that. And neither of us will ever know the truth of it, unless he actually steps forward and speaks to us directly. Hope he writes an autobiography in his old age.

                      Like

                  • Yeah I get what you’re saying, but I am myself and not many others 🙂 I base it also on the numerous fan sites that have the constant theme of stretchman in his underpants. I don’t believe taking off ones clothes makes them sexual, but I think it was a sexually charged role, and even Will commented on how his some of his crime scenes interpreted a sexual innuendo. At the end of the day I am not really worried about it, I just wanted to talk to people that were not my dog. Even though I love my dog.

                    Like

                    • I’m sure your dog is charming!

                      I think the role was sexually constituted — insofar as young Francis’ pathology was set up by his grandmother’s treatment of his emerging sexuality in the book anyway. The creation of the body builder’s physique is an attempt to compensate for the character’s weakness and shame about his appearance. So obviously those themes had to be treated. In turn that means that others are free to pick and choose the moments of perception they enjoy and turn them to their own ends. Several years ago there was a similar problem with the bumshots in Spooks 8 — lots of intrafandom stress about ogling his rear — and then of course, the whole thing last spring about whether it was okay to look at pictures of Proctor topless before seeing the whole play. As a general rule, I tend to think it’s pointless to try to stand in the way of others’ perceptions. I just try to present my own and argue for it. If looking at Richard Armitage’s context-free bum makes someone happy — well, it makes me happy too — that is how it is.

                      Like

  31. And in all fairness, all humanity is promoting itself. That is not exclusive to a few vocations.

    Like

  32. Il y a toujours eu avec Hannibal une idée d’ouvrir le fandom à des personnes d’autres horizons, mais aussi de donner une autre image de lui-même aux adeptes du ” handsome brooding actor”.
    La plupart des fans qui recherchent une prouesse dans le jeu de son acteur préféré, ne s’arrêtera pas au type de film ( drame, romance, comédie, fantastique, aventure, historique, policier, guerre, horreur…). Si le film et l’acteur sont excellents, il est facile d’oublier et pardonner ce qui dérange ( cf Hannibal , The Crucible ). Quand c’est moins bien il est plus difficile d’oublier, de mettre de côté, voire de jeter à la poubelle et ceci sans garder des séquelles ( cf Into the storm, certains interviews ).
    Mais personne ne m’ôtera de la tête, qu’avec la notoriété acquise dans le Hobbit , il ne veuille se séparer de certains fans, qu’il n’apprécie pas. Il se libère dans sa parole et ses actions. Parfois ses commentaires sont à la limite de la provocation, voire pour certains de l’agression, pour des oreilles sensibles comme les miennes.
    De plus comme dit si bien Servetus: ” The real problem is that he’s preachy”. Qui peut détenir la vérité?
    A ce stade de sa carrière il devrait se sentir affranchi de ses fans.
    J’ai beau beaucoup l’apprécier en tant qu’acteur, il frôle souvent l’excellence, parfois je suis plus que dubitative, surprise de ses choix dans ses paroles et ses selfies.

    Like

  33. jaydee, to comment above (the nesting was getting out of hand). You are correct on some points. However, I don’t believe Armitage is trying to force anyone to do anything (not that he could). I do believe he is suggesting that the avoidance of watching a role like Hannibal is something that someone can easily choose to change, and I do not believe that is true for every reviewer. I do find the suggestion that fans should just change their tastes slightly offensive when it comes to this specific role (if you said, “just try some opera, you might like it,” that would be a different matter for me). I also said nothing about AT (in fact, I said, “laying aside the comment on AT …” which means you know nothing about what I happen to think about that).

    As to whether I’m easily offended — who knows. There are plenty of things that Armitage does and says that offend others that I don’t comment on because I either find them meaningless, or disagree but don’t find it important enough to discuss it. The perception of fans by outsiders is a central issue of this blog, so yes, I am going to comment on it.

    As to whether any of this was forceful — if you think this stuff was forceful, hmmm. I would say you lack context. This post was written in a very concession-heavy way, that point out the source, my mood, the constraints upon speech in this situation, and then said nothing beyond my wish that Armitage would change the discourse. I think this is why people get frustrated with discussions. This was not a particularly contentious or argumentative post; it repeatedly conceded points; it avoided others, and it expressed a sort of weary desire. The stuff I have read about it, however, here and elsewhere, suggests that the people who are angriest about it didn’t read what it actually said. They saw that it was critical, and that was enough for them. To me — those are the people who are easily offended, and I don’t know why, because surely Armitage does not need their defense, particularly if he is the hero they claim him to be.

    Liked by 1 person

  34. A parallel academic discussion: http://notofgeneralinterest.blogspot.com/2015/12/thank-you-rebecca-solnit-just-thank-you.html last four paragraphs are the relevant ones to our discussions (unless you are a Nabokov fan)

    Like

  35. […] I wish you would turn the discussion on its head for once, Richard Armitage (December 19, 2015). Response to Armitage’s remarks in the Mirror interview. […]

    Like

  36. […] Like many of us I was surprised to learn that Richard Armitage pitied people who hadn’t had an “overwhelming, indescribable physical obsession” because “everyone should feel that.” Or that one is not fully human who has not experienced an all-consuming orgasm. For readers familiar with the history of academic psychology, his claim is going to sound a lot like a vulgarization of Erik Erikson’s statements about mutuality of heterosexual orgasm in Childhood and Society (1950) — if psychologists thought this way at one time, those days have ended as the influence of Freud and the Oedipal complex on psychotherapy gradually and thankfully wane. Perhaps it’s worth a reminder that well into our lifetimes, respected professionals still thought of male homosexuality as a type of psychological disorder, a sort of immature, pre-genital fixation on pleasure. Since I assume that Armitage would characterize himself as fully human and sexually mature, though, I was idly curious about who played the role of indescribable physical obsession for him, and whether it might have been Lee Pace. I also thought it was mildly paradoxical to say that everyone should experience an uncontrollable obsession, but that he wanted his characters’ on-screen sex lives to be choreographed. Obsession for thee, but not for me? We’ve seen that before, too, back when he was trying to change our tastes. […]

    Like

Leave a reply to squirrel.0072 Cancel reply

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.