I personally don’t think they died for Donald Trump and Brexit, but that’s just me, I guess


~ by Servetus on November 11, 2016.

24 Responses to “I personally don’t think they died for Donald Trump and Brexit, but that’s just me, I guess”

  1. I agree Serv but then RA didn’t say that, or did he?

    • No, I said it. I have documented on multiple occasions my opposition to pro forma war commemoration that makes things seem noble that are simply destructive, so this is nothing new for me, but this is the situation we are in right now. I think the fallen whose noble sacrifices we are supposed to sacrifice are a little different in my mind than they are in his, but I’m sick of reading glorification of war, particularly since it seems like that we will be at war in Syria within the year.

  2. I see that Suse already made one of the points I had in mind – but I think your point, Servetus, is as valid a reason for, or way of, remembering the fallen as any. What did they die for? Some believed they died for something more important than it turned out to be. I can weep for their willingness to sacrifice, and I can be angry for the waste of what might have been, for the lies, and so much more. We should be learning from our mistakes in Vietnam & the Mideast rather than repeating them. Especially not counting the cost (& financial is only part of that). I could say more but I’m headed into the grocery…

    • Veterans Day isn’t a day to weep for the fallen in my experience, but whatever. Around here, anyway, it’s a reason to celebrate the nobility of war. The fallen are simply instrumentalized for that purpose. Even “necessary” war is not noble. I’ve posted about this many, many times over the years.

      If we really wanted to do something — we should foreground the injustice of the situation. We say we’re sorry that young people die and yet we send them off again and again. And these days, we send the poorest people, people who often have little choice. While the children of the rich stay home and get richer. We should say, we’re sorry for sending you to war to prop up a corrupt government in Vietnam or to keep our gas prices low. We promise not to do that again.

      Note that no one is saying those things on Veterans’ Day. No one ever says those things.

      • Bob Dylan kind of did- I agree with you more than you probably think. Hugs.

      • Oh ((Serv)) 😦
        (That horsewhip on the picture makes me sick.)

      • This year where I lived in Canada Remembrance Day generated a lot of acknowledgement with our Mayor of Toronto and the local media of physical and especially the emotional costs, post traumatic stress injury, of war for the men and women who not just died but who served and came back. Remembrance Day for us here was definitely not to glorify but to thank our veterans, be hopeful for future peace and an opportunity to collectively contemplate and question what we do and can do in future do for the returned, especially regarding PSTI and the trauma of no longer being a part of their unit. A lost of focus today was put not only on the ultimate sacrifice during duty but also on the suicides of those who returned.

  3. Remembrance Day in Britain focuses on the dreadful carnage of both world wars, the waste of life then and since. There is no element of glorification at all.

    • First of all, saying there’s anything noble in these sacrifices is per se a glorification of war. I’m not dense and I’ve read all that poetry read in Britain on those days as well. Second, it’s Veterans’ Day in the US, Armitage lives here, and as an American I also have a right to an opinion on a commemoration that takes place here as well.

  4. As you know the German “Volkstrauertrag”
    is different from Armistice or Remembrance Day for historical reasons. My maternal grandfather died in 1944. He had played the violin in a musical corps until his unit was sent to the NL to fight in 1944. In a letter to his sister he expressed a deep certainty about his inevitable death and he asked her to look after his young wife and his 3-year-old daughter (my mum). He was indeed killed in action within a few days after he arrived at the front. I visited his grave at the German war cemetary in Ysselsteyn several times. His is one of 31.589 graves with small white crosses on them. The amount of crosses is overwhelming. So many young lives destroyed (my grandfather was 33-years-old when he died and he was one of the older soldiers). I have never left once without shedding tears for the senseless loss of lives during WW2 and during all other wars. That is why I think it’s important to remember all those who died in all wars. They were scared senseless, most of them would have died in utter panic, alone and in pain. We must never forget their suffering as it tells us, peace is the only way forward…

  5. It is not a horse whip it is a baton used in parades. Remembrance Day in the UK is not about the glorification of war but reminding people -their friends and families -who have died in the conflicts, especially the carnage of the first and then second world wars. That is whereRichard is coming from.

  6. Seem to have misunderstood you. Aware of but not.familiar with what happens on Veterans Day but here the day is about loss. Like suse3 with close family killed and disabled in the world wars there is no glory in it. First (and last) time I’ve ever joined a conversation and intending only to offer an interpretation of RA’s tweet.

    • Sorry — Volkstrauertag and Remembrance Day are far from the same thing. For one thing, Germany lost both world wars in case you didn’t notice that minor fact, whereas the UK was on the winning side in both.

  7. And for anyone who wants to tell me what Richard Armitage really meant — I’m not an idiot. I know exactly what he meant. I disagree with what he meant. In case that isn’t clear by now.

  8. Ici c’est la commémoration du 11 novembre 1918 et un jour férié en France. Je sais que vous n’aimez pas les commémorations Servetus. Mais
    grâce aux fans j’ai eu un cours d’histoire sur la “nuit de cristal” 9 et 10 novembre 1938, qui malheureusement tombe le même jour que l’élection de DT.
    Malgré votre volonté, vous ouvrez mes yeux Servetus.

    • that was an ominous coincidence — although there are several other anniversaries on that date as well that aren’t quite so awful.

  9. I don’t expect — because I didn’t make the argument here — that anyone will see my point that commemorations of the dead in which their sacrifice is praised for the ends they achieved is inherently glorifying of war. But I’m also emotionally exhausted. I’m going to close comments on this with a request for understanding. Perhaps we can take it up again some other time.

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