A little more inspiration, Armitage: or, a gentle suggestion to the marketing department

Hey, Richard Armitage’s marketers. (Servetus waves wearily, since I guess now most of us think you’re reading along.) I keep looking at this RT and my stomach keeps churning and since I know why, I thought I’d share it with you, even though I know that by drawing into question the sanctity of the Armitage’s words, I won’t endear myself to a lot of my readers. I know as well that as a forty-six-year-old female, I no longer occupy the sweet spot of your marketing efforts. I’ll even give it to you for free, since I give you everything else — my extreme loyalty to your product being first and foremost, but also my willingness to be humiliated every time any media outlet says anything derogatory toward fans — for free as well.

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For me, as for a lot of women in their mid-forties, I suspect, this isn’t a message that’s either new or one that we haven’t long ago internalized. I’m certainly not speaking for everyone, but I can speak for myself. My parents made clear to me by the age of five at the latest that as girl, I should expect this to be my purpose in life. Always be kind, please us, do the right thing, please G-d, do a good turn daily, be a helping hand, jump to help when you see someone who needs it, never complain, if you can’t say something nice keep your mouth shut. Always put a smile on your face, be polite, put some feeling in that smile, always fulfill your promises, always do what you say you will, always make the extra effort even if others aren’t as trying as hard. If any one forces you to go one mile, go with him two. The U.S. Midwestern behavioral jinx was laid over all of this as well. Wisconsin / Minnesota / Iowa / North Dakota nice.

When you hear a message for that long, you internalize it. It was ultimately a disabling message. It’s not just that it was a poor recipe for professional success, although that has been the case. It’s that it’s taken me three decades of my life, approximately, to get to a place where I don’t believe on principle that it’s my obligation to be nice to everyone at all times — no matter how they are behaving. I can not only disagree in my heart, I can say that I disagree. I may not only dislike something in my senses, I may express that dislike. And you know what? That freedom not always to put abstract rules about ethics ahead of every thought I think? That’s been the beginning of renewed creativity for me. The capacity to not like things — interestingly — has also intensified my ability to feel love for the things I really love.

I admit it. I’ve turned into that stereotypical woman of a certain age with a midlife crisis, the kind of woman I so arrogantly looked down upon when I was twenty-two. But you know, there’s a reason that women have sobbed their eyes out in cinemas all over the U.S., listening to this song:

I sob when I hear it, too, and I haven’t seen the film and I despise Disney on principle.

So, yeah. I get it. Be nice. You know, it’s not even that I think that those life lessons were wrong. I can think of several good arguments against the universal applicability of the ethic of reciprocity, which depends heavily on context for its utility. Still, it’s a general rule that I try to follow in my day-to-day life. Nowadays, I am employed as one of the perpetually, professionally nice. I tend toward cheerleading anyway and now I do it forty hours a week. As it was final exam week here, that facet of my job was called into use a lot. Of course, a lot of times, my efforts to make someone feel good fall flat in the face of the actual situation. There were several days this week when “make someone feel good” wasn’t even on the menu of possibilities; I just wanted to avert utter disaster.

And I come home and I want to be creative and I wonder, after having spent much of a day trying to make people just feel okay enough about themselves to function long enough to take a final exam, where I am supposed to get that energy from. The only I answer I have is from autonomy, from the freedom not to make what I am doing about what might or might not please others.

This commentator said it succinctly [my translation]: “It would be nice if his messages to fans were more ’empowering,’ encouraging, strengthening, a little more “YES,” a little less raised index finger.” That remark also echoes something another friend of mind said a long time ago, that one reason we keeping reading those endless press blitz interviews is that he’s often talking about artistic process, and it comes out a little differently each time, and there are clues in the nuances of those remarks about how to build and how to create.

~ by Servetus on May 3, 2015.

64 Responses to “A little more inspiration, Armitage: or, a gentle suggestion to the marketing department”

  1. yes, I relate to the progression of the unspoken ‘make others feel good, being responsible for others feelings’, etc. messages that are common for those of us from the Midwest, in helping professions and simply as women. Stuffing feelings and then not really being in touch w/ self can go along with it. I did cry when Let It Go came on in Frozen which really surprised me at the time (tx for blogging about it – lots of food for thought there). I totally see both where we’re coming from and where that tweet is coming from. Seems like 2 disparate sets of life experiences. No, it isn’t empowering language, and on a bad day, I would be thinking ‘grrr, yeah right, others’ feelings, not my responsibility’ and not look @ the pic. Seems that was just his original thought in the moment – which in itself is refreshing to some extent regardless of content – but I digress. There were similar tweets when he was first tweeting. I wonder if he doesn’t have a strong sense of justice that prompts a certain amount of outrage when he sees people who are mistreated – just based on tweets like that one. And the expression comes out fairly unfiltered. I recall an early interview where he says he doesn’t put up w/ BS. On the other hand, his interviews have become increasingly sophisticated on several levels. Part of me wants to reply ‘you can’t make people feel, they’re in charge of their own feelings.’ But it didn’t hit me at the moment, so I didn’t. I think at the end of the day wherever each person goes to re-energize or how s/he deals with their own personal baggage in a healthy way – that’s a good thing. Yes, I do cringe a bit reading it from this angle, but at the end of the day we can only take anyone as we find them, wish them well or not. allowing or preventing said person’s comment to influence us.

    Rather a separate topic – I do also find it refreshing that there is some amount of what the public sees that is an unvarnished, unadorned, original thought or action of a regular person, even if it is a small amount of what we see. I would put the last selfie taken in natural lighting and the recent airport pics in this unvarnished, unpolished category. In fact, I wouldn’t have recognized Richard in the selfie taken in natural light except it was his tweet.

    Bless you, Servetus, you’re always thinking and digging deeper, appreciate your blog, Cheers

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    • 2 very different life experiences is exactly right — and I would say in particular that being a man vs. being a woman is a divide that it’s very hard to get across empathetically.

      (Age is another. I read a bunch of blog posts, mostly from very religious women in their 20s, about how “let it go” is a dangerous message for women to absorb, and I thought, “I wonder how you will feel about that in 20 years.”)

      We can only take or leave people’s statements — yes, in the end. But we can also speak about how we feel about what they say. I think in the end a certain preponderance of a particular tendency means that people self-select away. But before that we can disagree.

      Thanks for the kind words.

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  2. Somehow I think western NY State has a midwestern vibe. It is either that or because of a heavy dose of religion but I was brought up the same way. I was in my thirties before I even knew I was angry. A very intuitive friend said the quieter you are the angrier you are. I thought wow, that can’t be true. And then I started paying attention. I still wasn’t verbalizing anything but at least I knew I was angry. It took me another decade to start saying when I was angry. […]

    I still people please on the internet and IMO if you can be outspoken anywhere the internet is the place. The song made me sob and I do not cry easily these days.

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  3. It is disconcerting to be suddenly on the brink of an emotional breakdown in the middle of a Disney movie. Completely caught off guard by a girl tossing everyone’s opinions back at them and taking a look at what she holds back because they are afraid of what she is capable of.

    But I do try to make people feel good. Sometimes, I imagine Thorin’s sword, cough the real one, and rename it kindness, sometimes I have to kill people with it. They die feeling really good about themselves…promise.

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    • I definitely think there can be a secret satisfaction in living up to “do not return evil for evil or reviling for reviling; but on the contrary bless, for to this you have been called,” but it’s in that same chapter with “Wives, submit to your husbands.” And i think I’m not supposed to be happy that I’m outwitting them — or feel better because I have been the better person, lol.

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    • That happened to me at work this week, too — someone lashed out at me publicly for doing something that I’d been told by my boss to do that concretely disadvantaged her without knowing that I’d been arguing against that measure for five days. I looked at her and didn’t say anything and thought, okay, do not return evil for evil. Sigh. Childhood socialization.

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  4. This is a great post Servetus. I totally agree with you.

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  5. “…a little less raised index finger.” Uh. Mah. Gah. THIS. So Much This. That nanny finger-wag is the quickest way to make my head snap up & my heels dig in. That interview he did back some time ago when he was asked about joining social media & he said something like ‘he got involved because things had become “vicious”. I did a Scooby head-tilt at that one for sure & thought it sure sounded judge-y. The other refereeing attempts on Twitter are, IMO, kind of silly & mostly ineffective. Makes you wonder why he does it, innit?

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    • It also bothers me insofar as (a) there was enough vicious behavior between his fans that preceded not only Twitter but even blogs, i.e., why now when not (for example) in the summer of 2012; and (b) it is really hard to understand what some of the drama is about and informing yourself usually means watching a number of platforms and knowing the history of the people involved. I can’t bring myself to believe that the guy spends that much time on his social media perception even now, so why call out the whole fandom for being vicious and what good — as you say — did he think that was going to do?

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      • Like pounding sand down a rat-hole. I freely admit to having next-to-no idea of all/any of the details of the skirmishes in the fandom: I see some tidbits here & there but don’t have the full context. I’ll throw my two cents in occasionally (that’s probably not helpful) but I try to let it roll on by. I really think if RA’s handlers were behind this parental control effort, it demonstrates (in my opinion) a complete lack of understanding of social media & how it works. It’s a gong-show. It’s surprising, interesting, appalling, shocking, stupid, intelligent, disgusting, brilliant…pick an adjective. Sometimes it runs the gamut in the same discussion!

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  6. Greetings. Admit not having all the facts, and you may know more, but my perception was this was retweeted to support a fan who was recently fielding messages from bullies, and in that context, it seems supportable.

    To your point though, speaking up for oneself also can ultimately help others feel good…as an example to those in their 20s.

    Namaste.

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  7. I am sorry you feel the way you do. I have been around some very controlling nasty people who think what they are doing is for the greater good of everyone around them. However, it really sucks since they make everyone around them feel very little and miserable. They make decisions for everyone without consulting others affected by it.

    One day, I was really angry and let them know it. They refused to listen and deflected any blame for their bad decisions by lecturing me of my faults. I agree with you, how can you smile back at people who piss you off. You shouldn’t have to. For you own sanity, may I suggest to you to just let them know how they hurt you. I would not suggest stooping to their level and belittle them. I would simply explain how you have been effected and why what they have been doing is wrong. Don’t expect an apology, just don’t take $h!t from anyone who makes you feel bad. If in the end of your vent, you feel better enough maybe then you can give yourself a smile. ; )

    In the case of Mr. Armitage, I do not believe he meant to do any harm. He seems like a very kind, considerate and giving person. In my opinion, he was just trying to spread a little joy into the lives of his fans. If he sounded preachy and lecturing, maybe he probably did it because his handlers complained about his fans NSFW responses to him in his Twitter page. In any case, there are now many people who are aware of this big brother like scenario that has been happening in the Richard Armitage fandom who agree with you. Twitter and social media should not be like George Orwell’s 1984.

    On a different topic, would it not be cool if Mr. Armitage and Yael Farber made a play out of one of George Orwell’s novels? I think it would be awesome if they did Animal Farm or even 1984 which I just mentioned.

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    • Thanks for the comment and welcome.

      I think the issue too is that I work in the office of an educational system. There’s always pressure to keep our eyes on a particular goal and to shape our behavior in service of that goal. Of course some people take that more seriously than others 🙂

      I agree that Armitage does not intend harm, and also that he in fact thinks he’s doing a good thing.

      re Orwell — I would love to see Armitage in practically any of Orwell’s works. Down and Out in Paris and London would be a fantastic one. Or the scene in 1984 where Winston is threatened with the rats … I tend to like social/political drama in general and Armitage has not done much of that; he seems more of the guy for the epic / archetypical drama.

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  8. La polémique tue la polémique . Je n’y comprends plus rien , c’est trop compliqué .
    Pour répondre à Perri , je tâcherai dans l’avenir de traduire un maximum de mes commentaires en anglais , malgré mes limites plus qu’évidentes .

    Aussi je passe à autre chose et découvre l’histoire de l’Angleterre à travers par exemple ” timelines.tv /history of britain ” : la révolution industrielle , la conquête normande , … C’est plus compréhensible ( même en anglais ) et surtout plus positif , constructif . Désolée

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    • Controversy kills controversy. I do not understand it anymore, it’s too complicated .
      To answer Perri, in the future I will try to translate a maximum of my comments in English, despite my more than obvious limits.
      So I move on and discover the history of England through such movie as : “timelines.tv / history of britain”: the industrial revolution, the Norman conquest … It is understandable (even in English) and especially more positive, constructive.
      Sorry to be sad and serious .

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    • Write WHATEVER language comes easiest for YOU. If it’s exhausting to spend your free time writing a foreign language, don’t do it. There are other people who read / speak French here, I read French well enough to understand what you’re saying, and if Perry or anyone else doesn’t understand, Google Translate is open to them as a possibility.

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      • Yes, as I said in answer to Elisa on my own blog. It may be frustrating me for me ( German translation on Google is terrible;French is not so bad), but everyone should definitely write in whatever language he/she chooses, especially when the blogger, herself, is fluent enough and can keep the conversation going in that language.

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        • Thanks for the affirmation.

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        • Beaucoup de messages et surtout des tweets en langue anglaise me sont incompréhensibles , d’ où ma lassitude , mon commentaire précédent .
          Sous cet angle de vue , je comprends mieux les conflits , qui peuvent apparaître par mauvaise interprétation, traduction du lecteur et / ou mauvaise rédaction , traduction de l’auteur ( expériences personnelles vécues ) .
          Sans compter sur les sensibilités , les centres d’intérêts , les niveaux d’apprentissage , les cultures , les origines géographiques , les générations , … du panel hétéroclite des fans … sujets déjà soulevés .
          Je n’aborderai pas le sujet de la fracture numérique , qui par exemple me bloque pour converser sur tweeter . Je n ‘en suis pas triste , vue vos commentaires et la modestie , qui me tiend éloignée de mr Armitage .
          J’espère rester digne dans mes écrits , des idéaux acquis par l’ éducation reçue de mes proches, des études supérieures à l’ université et de la vie professionnelle .
          J ‘ aimerais progresser en anglais malgré mes neurones trop sollicités avec les ans . Merci

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          • Many messages and especially English-language tweets are incomprehensible to me, hence my weariness, my previous comment.
            From this angle, I better understand the conflicts that may arise by misinterpretation, reader’s translation and / or poor drafting, author’s translation (personal experiences).
            Besides the sensitivities, interests, learning levels, cultures, geographical origins, generations … the motley panel fans … issues already raised.
            I will not address the issue of the digital divide, which blocks me for example to chat on tweeter. I ‘m not sad because of your comments and of the modesty, which keep me away from mr Armitage.
            I hope to remain worthy in my writings and ideals acquired by education received from my family, graduate studies at the university and working life.
            I ‘d like progress in English language despite my neurons overstretched over the years. Thank you

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  9. I think it’s easy to forget there is a cultural difference here too. As a British women approaching 40 I can say that the pressures you mention above were not applied to me in the same way. I’m not saying that I don’t have a my own hang ups from the way I was raised, but when I read this retweet my mind automatically translated it to don’t make others feel bad. While I fully support the idea that it is not our responsibility make others feel good, I do think we have to take responsibility for actions that may hurt another person needlessly, therefore that is the spirit in which I accepted the tweet.

    I’m not sure it would be fair to expect a person raised in the UK and yes, there is not point in shying away from it, a man raised in the UK, to understand the implications a comment like that might have for a woman raised in a similar, yet fundamentally different culture.

    I hope you understand this is not a mindless defence of Richard, more a just a comment on my own experiences of cultural misunderstanding and the problems of applying our own world view point to the actions of others.

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    • Thanks for the comment and welcome. Good point about the cultural difference, and I agree that these things can be particularly acute between US / UKers. Don’t harm others needlessly is closer to how I understand the ethic of reciprocity personally, but to me it falls under the same problem. What I think I need to do is something someone else thinks is needless. And in general, I agree we need to take responsibility for our words and actions.

      If you want to say more about how you think the cultural differences affect this statement, I would be interested to read your thoughts.

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  10. Thanks to Jo for the UK cultural clarification. To me, there is a huge difference between “making people feel good” and “don’t make others feel bad.” The first implies active people-pleasing and gives off a “happy happy joy joy”vibe. The second one is kind of a no brainer. Aside from those who gravitate to guilt-tripping on hundreds of topics, who wants to make others feel bad? Many of us are too busy making ourselves feel bad without outside encouragement.

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    • interestingly, Pesky would agree with you — we have had many long conversations around the question of whether “do unto others as you would have them do unto you” is equivalent to “that which is hateful to you, do not do to others.”

      re: making ourselves feel bad — oh, yeah.

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      • I am honored to be mentioned in the same paragraph as Pesky. You know I am a huge fan. 🙂

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  11. I think that the fan base has changed. I won’t use the word evolved because that perhaps implies it has adapted and improved when I think it some ways it hasn’t. I’m fifty and I was brought up in many ways to do all those things you mention in your post not because I’m girl but because it was how my parents were. My brother was taught the same things. I have never found them a hindrance but I have never pursued an academic career or high finance etc. In fact I work in the ultimate female job – nursing. For me I don’t se the message as dangerous. I have just done a dignity course at work and many of those values were at its core.

    As somebody who has seen first hand what cyberbullying can do – not just to the young but my own age group. I’ve sat with a couple of teenagers who have taken a handful of pills and comforted my daughter when people have called a retard and worse. Is it so bad to support a charity that is trying to stop this behaviourt?

    I sometimes despair at the internet. As a form of communication it has two big negatives you can’t hear the tone of how something is said(not that I can lol) and there is no body language. I often sit and read in dismay some things that are said and wonder how people act face to face. Sure it is possible to disagree without hurling insults

    As for the why now I doubt we will ever know. I have to say that one of the most visible RA pages is in melt down and perhaps that is at the centre. One of the posters there has been the victim of the most awful cyberbullying. And then there is twitter maybe he is just more aware of what is said than before and how it is said.

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    • Hi, this is the author formerly known as Khandy? Which page do you mean? I guess I have missed it. I’ll reply at further length in a bit.

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    • re: the questions you raise — perhaps if I had been a nurse, I’d have ended up feeling differently. However, looking back, I can see as early as the age of 16 how this kind of ethic caused me to put up with abusive behavior from an employer. I had thought about putting that story in this post and didn’t, but suffice it to say, I allowed my first corporate employer to verbally abuse me and to break labor law because I thought that was part of making others feel good. So while, in general, as I said, I don’t disagree with this message, I think it can only be used in context, I don’t think it’s universally applicable, and I would be willing to say that I think it is also extremely damaging to women.

      re: troubled teens — I spent a lot of my week dealing with a situation that escalated because the teen involved didn’t feel able to stand up for himself. (So it’s not just women.) I think that’s the other side of it. When we tell people to make nice, are we telling them to put up with crap? On the whole, I think this stuff is preaching to the choir. re: supporting this charity, I have never objected to him supporting it or said that it was bad for him to do so. He can support whatever charities he likes. It’s his life.

      There have been multiple visible incidents of bullying in the Armitage fandom since at least 2012, when I started watching closely, including on imdB.

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    • Addition — I think there’s a separate issue when seriously ill or dying people and their caregivers are involved. It’s not really what we are talking about here.

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    • oh: one thing to add. What I’ve observed on imdB has not been bullying but trolling. Has someone been concretely threatened?

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  12. yes it is me. I mean IMDB lets face if you log on To Richard Armitage it is one of if not the first board to get a mention.

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    • imdB has been in meltdown for roughly a year, though. I haven’t been watching it in the last couple of months.

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  13. I guess he has become more visible and so will be used to support campaigns like this . Yes there is trolling on IMDB but when one person all day everyday post after post is target called a witch frau stan stalker that for me is bullying.

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    • Hmmm. Maybe. I can think of cases where I’d agree (particularly if they involve teenagers) and cases where I would not (political campaigns). This to me is the issue that Armitage has left undefined — what is bullying?

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  14. This is such an interesting discussion.

    During the past year, it has become clear to many Danes that ‘we’ (i.e. Danes in general) have a most unfortunate habit of not speaking too well to others and about others, i.e. generally speaking, there’s a tendency in Danish society not to care about how a message may be received. There’s an ongoing rhetoric which may or may not have been begun by the media and/or politicians, and it has spread to the average Dane. For example, the issue of immigrants – even third generation immigrants (yes, that’s the term applied) – carries here a rhetoric which in my opinion is disgusting, and it’s apparently commonly acceptable.

    One mobile phone provider actually took this trend and made a very successful add. Assisted by a cause which is headed by our crown princess regarding bullying and loneliness, this add has contributed to Danes becoming increasingly aware of this “do not do unto others…” which it seems we had forgot. For those interested, here’s a link https://www.youtube.com/user/talordentligt

    I don’t expect you to understand :-), but my guess is you get the gist. This add started a campaign “Tal ordentligt” which roughly translated means speak with care.

    Now back to your comment, Serv, about “making people feel good” does not equal “don’t make others feel bad” in your opinion. I would very much like to hear why this is so. Could you elaborate, please? To me the two ‘concepts’ are heavily interwoven.

    I know that what you find unacceptable, may be acceptable to me, and what you find acceptable, may be unacceptable to me. My guess is you have qualms with the first (don’t make others feel bad), because it can come to mean that no matter the injustice or the infairness, etc., others should feel good whereas you should just ‘put up with it’. This is related to ‘be a nice girl’. Am I correct?

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    • This is going to be long 🙂

      One of the central issues here is an epistemological one (and this is the one that Pesky and I argue about all the time). Our concrete problem is a classic point where the rules collide: Christian mission to Jews. If you are visibly Jewish in the US (e.g., wear a kippah, have the requisite beard, which Pesky does, wear a certain sort of clothing), you will inevitably become the target of Christian mission. This happens even at “our” café — a stranger will hear a conversation of ours about something Jewish and plop down next to us and offer to help us learn about Jesus.

      Pesky pointed out to me that this is a concrete demonstration of how Jews vs. Xians understand the Golden Rule. Overgeneralizing crazily here: a Xian would say, if I didn’t know about Jesus I would want to, so I am going to tell people who don’t know the Good News all about it! It’s a kind thing to do. A Jew would say, gosh, I would not like to be the object of mission, it is hateful to me, therefore I will not tell strangers about my religion under the assumption that it would be something they would want to know.

      What’s clear in either case, epistemologically, is that in order for the rule to work you have to imagine the other as like yourself. In the Golden Rule case you assume the other is like you and would have the same desires as you; in the Silver Rule case, you assume only slightly less universally that if the other is like you he would be bothered by the same things that bother you and so you should quit. Pesky thinks this is a huge difference and I think it is somewhat less significant (but that gets you into our personal attitudes about mission — he is hugely bothered by it and I just brush the person off unless they are doing something really penetratingly unavoidable and they will not stop). You could summarize the difference as that between “do good!” and “do not do harm.” The latter is probably a subset of the former.

      So transitioning to the “make others feel good / do not make others feel bad” case, again we’re in a situation where in order to model our behavior, we have to imagine the other and what would make him/her feel good. There are some others for whom that act of imagination is simply insufficient, or the effort required to fulfill the imagination would be out of all reasonable bounds. Moreover, there are many people in the world who exploit that — who know that you will do what you have to do to make them feel good and thus use it to get more from you (we see this in customer service situations all the time in this country). In contrast, do not make others feel bad still involves the act of imagination, but the moral burden is less. What I do may not make someone happy or good, but at least I did not do anything to make things worse.

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      • I’m reading my way through your comment, Serv. Thank you for the quick response. I just need to research some words. Off to bed now, but will be back tomorrow 🙂

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      • I agree that there’s a huge difference between seeking to make others feel good, and simply avoiding making them feel bad. Either can be the way to go sometimes, I feel. This is a great post & great discussion!

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      • Been off with a cold (yep, apparently, it’s global). I had to go and do some research because I had to look up words. Now I’m much wiser. I now know that a Xian is a Christian, I know the difference between the Golden and the Silver Rule, and I now know – or am at least aware of – the difference between the “make others feel good” and “do not make others feel bad” concepts. Thank you, this is forever a learning process and certainly a main reason why I’m following your blog.

        As you can tell from the above, I’m not particularly bible-strong, although I had heard the words of Matthew before – only in Danish – but I had not really given it much thought, and I have never heard it mentioned as a Golden rule before. So, I’m learning.

        I’m Lutheran, and oddly I tend to agree with Pesky. So, what’s up with that? Did I understand your example correctly? Are we here not dealing in a simplified discussion of religious ways of looking at the world, but is it cultural (if you can separate religion and culture, which I’m not so sure you can)?

        I would say it’s rude to try and pressure a religion onto others who are clearly, obviously of another religion. I understand why it upsets Pesky so. But, hey, these people believe they are doing it for the greater good, so what’s the harm? It’s just so offensive in my opinion. But it’s a great example because it makes me see the difference between the two concepts.

        Now back to the discussion. Of course, we look on the world through the spectacles with which we are born. It’s very difficult to do otherwise, but one can try to do the least harm while wearing those spectacles. I’m a product of my upbringing in a hugely homogenous society (until the late 70’s) with a fairly laid-back attitude to religion, with strong views on civil rights, freedom of speech (the debacle of the Mohammad drawings – ahem), approx. 90%+ gender equality, and a well-fare system that will take care of me if/when I need it. I believe my views are – “Why can’t people just get along” – and I see, I realise, that I’m naive. There I’ve said it. My basic view of the world is naive.

        Are we all this naive? Is Armitage? Somehow I don’t think you or Pesky are? This is really food for thought. This is so philosophical….

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        • I did say that it was an oversimplification, I believe 🙂 My impression is that European Xians in general are much less serious about Matthew 28: 16f, in which Jesus tells his disciples to “tell the world”. That plays a role for a lot of American Xians. Jesus said, engage in mission, is step A. Then, some kind of thought along the lines of “if I could die eternally if someone didn’t tell me the Good News, then I would be resentful if no one told me, if I could have live eternally,” which then combines with “do unto others” to justify this kind of everyday evangelism. I guess the point is that the necessity to tell others is lodged in Xty in a way that it isn’t in Judaism.

          I don’t know if I would call your worldview naive. Optimistic, perhaps 🙂 and perhaps you are correct. I can’t speculate about Armitage. I personally do not believe that “we can all just get along.” Some worldviews are logically incompatible with other ones. I think Pesky, who did a lot of political work right after finishing university and before going to grad school, probably believes that even more so than I do.

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  15. Strangely enough on my dignity champion training the message wasn’t treat somebody as you your want to be treated but more treat them how they wish to be treated, taking into consideration there opinions,culture and religious beliefs. My Dad used to say that we cannot truly understand another peson unless we walk in their shoes.

    Freedom of Speech and expression is hard is it not? Because it requires us to defend the right for somebody ,not only hold an opinion that is the polar opposite of our own, but also for their to shout it from the highest roof top if they say wish.

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    • I also think there are issues (I observed this between my mother and one or two of the nurses in the rehab where she died) that might develop with people engaged in long-term care of people who are never going to get better and who can be seen to have a reason for behavior we might not otherwise like. Coping mechanisms, I guess. I only ever said something once but I also felt it was my job to make sure someone was with mom as often as she wanted one of us to be there.

      Yes, I think freedom of speech is hard for most people to understand, let alone defend. I’ve had some of my issues and I would say my understanding is developing.

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  16. Well said, everyone. I so appreciate this discussion. I’ve not been around the fandom long, so I have a limited understanding of the context regarding all this, but I think I’m getting a better understanding. What has gone through my mind every time Richard has put out a “message” is that he just doesn’t understand women. 😄

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  17. For a little more inspiration , may I present you :
    – ” Luc Arbogast ” a very singular french singer , great voice with low and high notes , middle age and other inspirations
    – ” Guillaume – la jeunesse du conquérant ” a new movie 6 may 2015
    by Fabien Dugeon , cartel distrib

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  18. Posted on behalf of Babette, an attorney:

    ” I don’t think it’s a mid-life crisis, I like to think of it as an acute realization that things are not as they should be. We have come to a point where we are sick of “being nice” and agreeable and non-argumentative, and being responsible for everybody and everything all the time.

    Men are not taught to “be nice to others.” Mr Armitage is clueless about much in life, that is apparent. Of course, he does not appear to lead a normal existence so perhaps he can be forgiven for living in a bubble. But I agree that the finger-wagging is irritating. He has no idea that the nerve he is hitting is causing many of us to want to kick him in the shins, beautiful blue eyes be damned!

    Your post made me nod vigorously over and over. And I see the pattern replaying itself everywhere, every day. I see young girls and older women who are sexually assaulted and tell me that they froze and did not “say no” because they did not know what to say or how to say it! They did not want to offend! I see women staying in abusive domestic situations because they have somehow internalized the twisted concept that they have somehow failed their partners and deserve whatever ill treatment they receive. Everything is their fault, they feel responsible for all negative outcomes. This is drilled into us from the time we are little girls and you have described the negative consequences so well. No, this is not a recipe for success in many settings.”

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  19. After reading this I feel really lucky that I (female, 52, from Germany) was NOT taught to be “nice”! My parents told me (and showed me) to be kind or a least polite and well-mannered and always listen to the other side but stand up for my opinions and values, question authorities and tell my needs and feelings in a appropriate way.

    They used Thomas Gordon’s model of communication and tried to teach us skills of communication (active listening and I-messages) and conflict resolution by the win-win-strategy.

    I’ve learned that it’s not possible to please everybody and that different persons have different values and needs. I can not assume that actions that would make me feel good are equally fitting for somebody else.

    I try not to hurt people on purpose but I’ve made the experience that I have touched sore spots just because I live the way I live. In the Gordon Model there is the question of “problem-ownership”. In this case the other person has a problem with my behavior and I could use the tool “active listening” to help her solve her problem in her own way. But it’s also possible that we have a “values collision” that cannot be solved.

    My parents had this Gordon text in their “golden-marriage-book” and it works for me with my husband, my sons, my friends, my colleagues, my pupils and students as well:

    “A Credo for My Relationships with Others
    You and I are in a relationship which I value and want to keep. We are also two separate persons with our own individual values and needs.
    So that we will better know and understand what each of us values and needs, let us always be open and honest in our communication.
    When you are experiencing a problem in your life, I will try to listen with genuine acceptance and understanding in order to help you find your own solutions rather than imposing mine. And I want you to be a listener for me when I need to find solutions to my problems.
    At those times when your behavior interferes with what I must do to get my own needs met, I will tell you openly and honestly how your behavior affects me, trusting that you respect my needs and feelings enough to try to change the behavior that is unacceptable to me. Also, whenever some behavior of mine is unacceptable to you, I hope you will tell me openly and honestly so I can try to change my behavior.
    And when we experience conflicts in our relationship, let us agree to resolve each conflict without either of us resorting to the use of power to win at the expense of the other’s losing. I respect your needs, but I also must respect my own. So let us always strive to search for a solution that will be acceptable to both of us. Your needs will be met, and so will mine–neither will lose, both will win.
    In this way, you can continue to develop as a person through satisfying your needs, and so can I. Thus, ours can be a healthy relationship in which both of us can strive to become what we are capable of being. And we can continue to relate to each other with mutual respect, love and peace.”
    Dr. Thomas Gordon

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  20. Yup! Thanks for this post! I was groomed to be nice, too. And I do my darndest. Most of the time, it works. But there are instances when being nice and politeness only works when “everyone gets the memo”. Hhhhh! Just one of those Mondays today. Ha!

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  21. Yep, groomed to be nice here as well, although also groomed to know where your limits are and to say what you think when the need arises – but: in a nice way! My mom once gave my dad a sign to put on his desk because he was so good at this (almost so good it became a bit of a fault): “Diplomacy is telling someone to go to hell in such a way that s/he actually looks forward to the trip!”. Now, I don’t believe in always being diplomatic because sometimes that doesn’t work where being blunt does, but I do believe in always at least trying diplomacy first. And I guess that is how I read RA’s tweet: a well-meant reminder to try to be nice and not make others feel bad if you can help it, I don’t think he meant to say to always make everyone feel nice – that is just not humanly possible. But then again, that is me talking from my reference point with no idea what RA really meant by that. Anwyay, when I read the tweet I acknowledged and moved on, not thinking that much of it. Although, I did for a moment wonder what prompted that tweet, then decided I didn’t want to know. 🙂

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    • I think most people who don’t want to know are probably happier 🙂 unfortunately for me, I pretty much always want to know. Just like having a bad memory makes you a happier person in general 🙂

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  22. I’m going to try and give my thoughts before i read everyone, i’ll go back to that but i think i read or understand this differently. I don’t interpret or understand ‘being nice’ necessarily as ‘saying nice things’. Being positive to others or helping, having a positive impact is not about saying nice things for me, but about the how i do and say things.
    My constraint i was educated as you were too from the sounds into the being nice slot. To the point where i was a total conflict avoider. Until i went and landed myself in a job where i am there to scrutinise, to critically evaluate, to check and to improve things. Basically i give bad messages more than 70% of the time or point out the flaws. Which went against all prior conditioning. And it is also how i discovered that ‘ being nice’ is about the how, about the approach to difficult things. And it has also been my experience that the most difficult messages are better received if delivered in an open, positive way 🙂 With a smile you could say. So for me it is about talking to others and approaching things the way i’d like to be approached, with respect and openness and with a problem solving attitude. With acceptance of different opinions and values. I’m in a btchy job but i’m a friendly btch 😉 People respond much better when you try and help then out of the crap rather than making them feel bad because something went wrong.
    I sometimes get fascinated with the ‘why this’ and ‘why that’ and it was certainly the focus when i did an academic job, but frankly i enjoy the more practical stuff much more and rather than ending up in guilt trips and circling round the same issues it allows me to move forward.
    It is how i choose to interpret things like this, it matters less why things have gotten in a certain situation (they will inevitably land in there , people are the way they are), it matter more where we go from here and how we do so quicker rather than slower.
    I think in general, or at least this is how i ‘read’ his stuff, he means to say consider this before you act, or have a think about the impact of actions, not a general ‘always make nice’ attitude. In practice even he knows and i am sure applies the more practical ‘consider consequences’ rather than always ‘make nice’ approach. Because the first one is more likely to get things done, in a ‘nice way’ 😉 whereas the second one will end you as the ‘considered but neglected’ one 😉 And he ain’t that either 😀

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    • I like this, Hariclea. “Critical” as in analytical AND helpful vs. judgmental, punitive, ad hominem. The goal being clearly to build up/encourage, not destroy or discourage.

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    • Sure. I think most people aren’t trying to be mean. Some are. Most teachers, for instance, follow this strategy. But even if you try to be as diplomatic and as kind as possible, you cannot control how someone feels about what you have said or in response to what you have done.

      The reason that i interpret this as a platitude is that I wonder how many people there are in the world who don’t consider others’ responses when they decide what to say or do. To me, at best, this statement is the equivalent of saying “remember to open your mouth before you put food in it” and at worst serves as the justification for just the kind of bullying he claims to want to stop.

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      • Oh see i have a more pessimistic view of the world. Apart from the instances when people say things specifically to be hurtful – for a variety of reasons- i think in most cases reactions are instinctively selfish and it isn’t really the default position to think before we speak. And i think on social media and internet in general people consider impact and consequences even less than in real life. Being told or educated that this should be the default attitude and knowing it does by no means imply in my opinion that people act accordingly too. In my experience most don’t.

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        • Yeah, but you kind of make my point. People who are trying to be mean know they are being mean. They do that intentionally or at least willingly. Their behavior will not be changed by preaching; in fact, there’s a risk that preaching against what they do will make them more firm in their intentions or their practices just in the sense of “it’s my right to say what I want.”

          Think before you speak is also a platitude that people hear every day of their lives from birth to death, IMO. Perhaps not where you live, but I grew up with the constant inculcation of “if you don’t have something nice to say then be silent” and I would say I hear it at least once a week now. Whether or not people act in accordance with the platitude, in the US they certainly hear it enough. Perhaps the problem is that they hear it so much.

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          • you are probably right and i’m sorry you hear it so often, what a pain people are sometimes 😦 And yes it is overused and used a lot to just mean ‘shut up’ which is where dictatorship starts (shut up unless you say something i agree with :-S ). I’m thankful for no longer living in an environment where shutting up is the rule and i am incredibly thankful for living in an environment where ‘speak up’ is more the rule. I guess R is an in way reflective of the typical attitude around here (well, maybe not everywhere but most situations) of speak up and speak your mind, just be mindful of how you do it (ie polite ;-)) And thankfully it doesn’t mean speak to agree. There is a general attitude of question, ask, say what you think in the public environment. Much more so in my experience than in other European countries. And a willingness to listen to other opinions. Sadly across the place all kinds of extremist ho-ha gets in the way of it, but thankfully so far open debate has prevailed and i hope it will continue to do so. Yes there is that thing about always being polite and it may result in people saying things in roundabout ways 😉 but they do say it. I’ve honestly learned a lot personally about speaking up since living here. And getting the balance right between tolerance and having your own opinion. And how important it is to feel safe to speak up.
            For me it is also a theme always worth talking about and thinking about, it’s never a given, not something to be taken for granted but actually something that needs constant exercise and testing.

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            • I think inevitably we read these things differently. We are all standing in different places. I admit, too, that one of my issues with fandom is its willingness to get caught up in pushing stuff like this. Pesky would say it’s because most venues for meaningful political activity on the part of the average person have been eliminated, so we do stuff like this (tell each other to be nice).

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