Richard Armitage continues his political commentary
Yes, Nigel Farage — that was embarrassing and just plain crazy this morning (you must think that if you’re a Tory, too). And I agree — what the most of the Leave people seem to want is only accomplished with “in” (Single Market) or “out” (complete control of borders), but you can’t have both of those.
Me + Richard Armitage 
Did you titter a bit at the “dignity … in defeat and also in Victory.”
Tbc not making fun of Richard at all. But there is no politician that has emerged with “dignity” in this fiasco. (not up to date as today’s happenings because I’m actually doing my actual job!)
The only people who have come out with dignity are the British people. I love the image of Richard calling all his Berlin Station crew to reassure them that he loves them!
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Did you also titter a bit at the “dignity … in defeat and also in Victory”? TBC I’m not tittering at Richard. I don’t think that any politician came out of this with dignity.
The only people who have exhibited dignity have been the British people themselves (not the racist thugs but all others generally including those that voted for Brexit).
I don’t know if he intended to give the image – but I still love it – of him calling all his Berlin Station crew to reassure them that he still loves them despite the vote.
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I think what he’s saying in a slightly convoluted way is that it’s a poor choice to rub it in when you win, even if / esp if, you’re Nigel Farage. I have to say I was horrified — like, when I played the tape of his speech my jaw dropped.
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Sorry for the double post!
There’s a reckoning coming to Mr Farage.
Who is holding the UK back from pursuing their “global ambitions and future”?
Plus he’s definitely not the person you want on the brexit negotiation team – I think he salted the earth so he can have more to complain about when inevitably failure arrives for Brexit.
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yeah, I agree. He obviously wanted to make the negotiations even harder than they will be otherwise, too. Although I imagine there is a group of UKIP voters who watched that and thought, finally somebody speaks truth to power. If I were the Tories, I’d be calling the mafia in at this point.
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UKIP’s biggest gain is disenchanted Labour voters from the north.
UKIP is so ideally positioned to suck the life out of both Tories and Labour.
I can think of no comparable situation in Canadian politics where such a broad spectrum of people committed to one party.
I’m faintly remember Ross Perot – did he attract both extreme right and left like UKIP?
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Not that I remember. The problem then was whether the American public would vote for Clinton the known and notorious adulterer. Bush the First was plagued by an economic downturn and an unpopular war — both in the last year of his term. Perot was a non-Clinton alternative to Bush more than anything else. He didn’t have much Left support.
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😦 it was just embarrassing… You hope experts and politicians involved in negotiations further along will ignore such outburst/people but it’s impossible not to have an impact. Dignity has been sorely missing for a while but particularly since last week 😦 and looking at the shocking increase in hate crimes makes me doubt British people like i haven’t before… it’s not only the attackers, it is also those, many more in numbers doing nothing, standing by and not even rejecting such incidents publicly. Sturgeon yesterday made a refreshingly sober and practical speech. Of course her position is very different, but one can’t stop wishing more politicians down in London would take her example..
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re: Sturgeon — I think she has less to lose.
re: hate crimes — I can only imagine how disturbing that must be. Precisely because it’s not something that’s been customary — no coping mechanism in place.
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(complete control of borders) FOR SOME PERSONS IN FRANCE THAT MEANS BORDERS IN ENGLAND NOT IN CALAIS!
No more jungle with children that needs medical hypernutrition foods, because of starvation, as some colleague told me.
We are in EU, but I dream of something different, more health and social care, equal working conditions and taxes, less foolish traders in banks, less power to multinational companies, and at least no agreement contracts to deregulate (school health) services, without transparency, secretly, over the Atlantic sea, to thwart China.
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I think one of the interesting aspects of this debate is that for some people the EU is neo liberal, whereas for others, it’s the epitome of the socialized state. The EU is so amorphous that opposition to it (as we saw in the UK) because hard to predict — everyone potentially has something to object to.
I would like those refugees out of Calais, too.
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that’s what i find sad about all the negative feeling rising towards the EU or more directly towards it’s institutions. The EU is turning a blind eye too, clearly some reforms are necessary and so many people want more transparency. I don’t think this could have been avoided, very much self inflicted. But the bureaucracy in EU institutions and the size of the apparatus does not make for good accountability, shame the EU isn’t very good at looking at itself and trying to improve :-S It’s not helping its own cause.
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the refugee problem epitomizes this for me — instead of a united response (or in lieu of failed attempts at a united response), you get nations acting on their own.
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really sad fail on solidarity there and united they could have done so much more and in better ways…
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as to Calais i was deeply impressed by the way the Germans have dealt with the incoming refugees, making considerable efforts to provide shelter and by that i mean decent housing, employing additional staff to help take the people into the necessary social systems etc. It is slow and surely difficult but it is the right thing to do… sadly other countries seem much less willing to incur the effort.
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The neo-isolationist and ultra right wing support is seemingly – and unfortunately – gaining ground. Sadly it seems nothing has been learnt from the destabalising economic and political situations prior to the outbreaks of two world wars.
I know I shouldn’t ‘paint the devil on the wall’ (do you have this metaphor in English?), but I’ve got this eerie feeling…I hope, hope it won’t come to this. I hope that politicians can unite rather than spread fear and untruths. That people can put pressure on their governments to facilitate and enter into democratic and open discourse, to stop this mad rhetoric of ‘we are better off as sovereign nations’. That the world can stand united against any onslaught from organisations which only want to oppress and create havoc.
Speaking of a generational gap – I experience first hand that those who lived though WWII have learnt absolutely nothing by history. Closed borders and isolationist attitudes never brought anything other than misery.
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I sat in Global History this year in our High School’s 10th grade program and nothing could be more relevant than what is going on right now in the world political arena!
Sadly, I can only concur with those who have said it before me; we seemed to have learned nothing from our history lessons.
It’s very odd to be watching all this as it’s unfolding with very little ability to control the outcome. While my vote in November will certainly count, the choices are quite unsatisfactory and I certainly can’t control the sentiments of those around me whose opinions are nothing less than shocking! It’s like a bad dream where you wake up disgusted and drained. Only this is really happening. 😕
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Speaking as a historian — politicians in democracies are extremely unlikely to learn from history. There are some exceptions but on the whole they don’t think historically but in terms of the next election. “All politics is domestic politics.”
In the end it depends a lot on what lessons you drew from WWII. This is why public affairs programming and history TV are really important. Today most people learn their WWII history from tv, and tv also shapes the memories of those who lived through it. The major lessons that most history programming imparts either intentionally or unconsciously are nationalistic.
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Germans temperamentally are really troubled by disorder, relatively speaking — to me that explains both the more organized response to the influx but also the emerging levels of xenophobia.
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i do wonder where the xenophobia comes from … it probably gives people an outlet for all kinds of fears? otoh i just don’t understand how other countries can just watch people living in tents and on the streets like that and not try and do a bit more even if it requires them asking for additional funding from others… It’s frightening this ‘look away and ignore’ mentality 😦
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I don’t know that it’s xenophobia per se so much as fear of chaos, that was kind of my point. Not saying that that’s the case everywhere, but it seems pronounced in Germany.
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L’histoire allemande a montré par le passé une grande pratique , une grande tradition d’intégration, de populations déplacées:
– les personnes étrangères, d’origine germanique, récupérées par Hitler pendant la guerre, alors qu’elles venaient de pays conquis ou de pays comme la Russie, qui voulait s’en séparer pendant et après la guerre;
– les personnes étrangères des anciennes colonies et pays alliés;
– les personnes des régions de l’ex Allemagne de l’est et des pays de l’est après la chute du mur de Berlin.
Ce ne fut pas facile et cela ne peut faire oublier toutes les victimes de l’holocauste.
De plus Angela Merkel veut marquer son passage de chancelière fédérale. Son mandat va bientôt finir.
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